You're right. One hundred percent. And it should piss you off to no end. But isn't it worth fighting for a something that has a chance of hope? We both know what Hubski is capable of, and frankly, I'm sick of running from site to site trying to maintain what's been great about being here, I'm at the point where this is where I stick my flag in the ground and yell at them, "no, fuck you, sit down, shut up, and learn" to educate the people rather than hop away to something else and hope it doesn't happen again. There are great fucking people here that I want to keep hearing from, and I'd much rather scare off 85% of new users by intimidating them with our mores and standards than have all the new users and losing yet another place for real discussion. Aren't you tired of having what you believe shit on again and again? You still moderate at reddit even, even though we both know what it's terrible. Why do you do that to yourself then? You must see something worth fighting for there, and if you can, you should definitely see something here too. So I'm all for seeing "HOW DARE YOU BRING UP REASONS" be followed by "sit down, shut up, and learn" backed by the whole community. It's not just a "fuck you". it's a stern "here are facts. I won't present them kindly as you're clearly a rabid manchild." Intimidation. The new users can come in scared and will fucking listen before speaking flippantly. The old guard here is on board with it, it just needs to be enforced in the comments, by whichever way each person who understands sees fit. Leaving won't solve it, because you know they'll follow you eventually, and I'm sure as fuck not giving up on the internet being would it could, because that's what's really happening by migrating. The worthwhile get quiet out of respect or some other misanthropic exhaustion and they lose. I'm so exhausted by fighting it, but it's a fuckload better of an option than reinforcing the bad behavior.
It's taken me four days for things to slow down enough to respond, but know that I've been meaning to respond. This is actually a function: IF: something has a chance of hope THEN: isn't it worth fighting for? It's a big "if" and it's a big "then" on purpose because "chance of hope" is a hard thing to judge. Honestly, I gave up on greater Reddit the day Jedberg left. Everything I have there now is legacy - I keep /r/favors running because I built it and there's nobility in there. I keep /r/foodforthought running because it's one of the last places to find articles that matter. I'm in /r/movies because I was heavily recruited, but stick around because they really mean it. It's heartening. Funny thing is most of the default subreddits exist to get tedious shit out of pics and askreddit. They were never worth fighting for. I know what Reddit is capable of, too. It could have been incredible. It isn't. And I fought that tide, yo. I fought it street to street. My wife got death threats because I demanded /r/skeptic be "skeptical." and I can tell you with no hesitation that there's only so much one person can do. Without a structure to back you up, you will get buried in bullshit at some point. The ants will strip the ox carcass. And at some point, you have to recognize that you're fighting tooth and claw for something you don't own, something that doesn't love you, and something that will not forget you when you're gone. And there are better things to do with your time.But isn't it worth fighting for a something that has a chance of hope?
I completely agree with you with scaring off new users if that's what it takes. The people being scared off by impressing the fact that discussion matters and that our standards are high are people that probably just want their 10 seconds of attention per comment anyway. I think trying to be proactive about it is a good way to start, and if it doesn't work then going for intimidation and so on and so forth (at least on my end). Pressing people to have a discussion is something we could all pitch at hand at making happen.