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comment by ecib
ecib  ·  4605 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: Hallelujah lyrics meaning
Very interesting. I will say though, that though Choen is Jewish, he Does not shy away from singing about Christian themes, specifically referencing Jesus. "and Jesus was a sailor when he walked upon the water, and he spent a long time watching from his lonely wooden tower. And when he knew for certain only drowning men could see him, he said 'all men will be sailors then until the sea shall free them'" One of the coolest lines ever, and talkes specifically about he miracle of Jesus walking on the water, and then the crucifixion and how only when men are in peril and need it most are they most open to him, so let men be in peril on Earth in order to be freed when finding Jesus. I think in the end, there is probably just a big mishmash of new and old testament infuence running throughout all of his poetry.




JakobVirgil  ·  4605 days ago  ·  link  ·  
Sure Jesus is referenced but the idea of an old and new testament is alien. He is definitely not a Bob Dylan who converts back and forth.

that is a great song.

ecib  ·  4604 days ago  ·  link  ·  
Hmm. Isn't the idea of salvation through Christ (which Cohenwrites and sings about) completely absent in Jewish Dogma? I'm not suggesting he personally subscribed to the idea, just that he borrowed from both dogmas in his writing (not to mention Eastern dogma increasingly in his later years). I'm not familiar enough with Jewish scripture to tease out the overlap with the Biblical references.

I've been meaning to read the Jewish holy books for years, as well as the Quran. I can never seem to find the time, and they arent exactly page-turners :)

As an aside, in the song, when he sings about the Holy Ghost moving within them, I take this as the classic triumvirate of God-Jesus-holy Ghost, aka the Holy Trinity from the Bible. Does Jewish Dogma recognize that, or is that Christian-specific?

JakobVirgil  ·  4604 days ago  ·  link  ·  
he borrows but doesn't he get it wrong?
ecib  ·  4604 days ago  ·  link  ·  
Like how? I'm not sure he gets anything wrong, Christian, Jewish, or Eastern. I've always been of the opinion that his poetry is not instructive or descriptive when it comes to religious matters. On the contrary, religion informs his life and stories. He takes what he wants, bits and pieces here and there, but when we hear Leonard, we are hearing a voice where the poetry comes first, above all else, and he is never concerned about theistic accuracy as much as internal integrity.

But if you are more specific with a particular verse, I can definitely opine whether it seems to be in line with Christian dogma.

JakobVirgil  ·  4604 days ago  ·  link  ·  
I think we should analyse Suzanne next.

    Suzanne takes you down to her place near the river

    You can hear the boats go by

    You can spend the night beside her

    And you know that she's half crazy

    But that's why you want to be there

    And she feeds you tea and oranges

    That come all the way from China

    And just when you mean to tell her

    That you have no love to give her

    Then she gets you on her wavelength

    And she lets the river answer

    That you've always been her lover

    And you want to travel with her

    And you want to travel blind

    And you know that she will trust you

    For you've touched her perfect body with your mind.

    And Jesus was a sailor

    When he walked upon the water

    And he spent a long time watching

    From his lonely wooden tower

    And when he knew for certain

    Only drowning men could see him

    He said "All men will be sailors then

    Until the sea shall free them"

    But he himself was broken

    Long before the sky would open

    Forsaken, almost human

    He sank beneath your wisdom like a stone

    And you want to travel with him

    And you want to travel blind

    And you think maybe you'll trust him

    For he's touched your perfect body with his mind.

    Now Suzanne takes your hand

    And she leads you to the river

    She is wearing rags and feathers

    From Salvation Army counters

    And the sun pours down like honey

    On our lady of the harbour

    And she shows you where to look

    Among the garbage and the flowers

    There are heroes in the seaweed

    There are children in the morning

    They are leaning out for love

    And they will lean that way forever

    While Suzanne holds the mirror

    And you want to travel with her

    And you want to travel blind

    And you know that you can trust her

    For she's touched your perfect body with her mind.