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AlderaanDuran  ·  4064 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: Zen Masters?

    Assuming the purpose of zazen is to "attain" enlightenment/nirvana (enlightenment/nirvana being paraphrased as realization of the oneness of everything) wouldn't we realize that the caffeine, house, car, other drugs, entitlement to a name, etc. are all just a part of it and therefore not negative?

Not negatives, just distractions at the most, and arguably to some not even important. But to me, they are the things that play into my demeanor and disposition, and sometimes my stress and mental clarity. For you they may not be distractions, for me they can be at times. Sometimes these things could be sources of Dukkha in my life. It's not that I need to eliminate or get rid of them, but they bring certain negative feelings to my life, so for me, sometimes they are Dukkha. It doesn't mean I need to give them up, but it means I either need to get over the anxiety or stress they cause, or give them up if deemed to be impossible. Video games, as one example, were a huge cause of this in my life, and so was smoking pot. They were things that I could not deal with mentally, so they had to be removed from my life. That was part of my personal austerity and cessation of suffering. Those two things caused a lot of "unsatisfactoryness" in my life (not a word, but it's the only way I can explain it other than saying Dukkha again, which encompasses lots of negative feelings in life.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dukkha

Perhaps the very pursuit and dedication to finding enlightenment IS enlightenment, and many schools and masters would agree with exactly that understanding of it. You'll notice most texts and writers on the subject will never tell you what enlightenment exactly is. Perhaps after years of sitting and searching, Buddha discovered that the very act of sitting and searching was the enlightenment, that the act of looking for that goal so hard was the goal in and of itself. What enlightenment is, even within Zen itself, will be described differently by different schools.

In reading Buddhist scripture and books, you'll notice the common pattern that even I'm repeating here, in that things are almost entirely described in riddles and metaphor, and that there is no clear answers for lots of the questions a student will ask. That's part of the rub, is to figure it out for yourself, and what these things all mean, and more importantly mean to you. Zen can only be understood through the practice, so explaining it becomes difficult. Like I said earlier, it's easier to say what it isn't than what it is.

For Japanese Zen (Soto), they would tell you and I that we are already enlightened by merely practicing. Take this excerpt from the wiki...

    The Sōtō-school has de-emphasized kōans since Gentō Sokuchū (circa 1800), and instead emphasized shikantaza. Dogen, the founder of Soto in Japan, emphasised that practice and awakening cannot be separated. By practicing shikantaza, attainment and Buddhahood are already being expressed. For Dogen, zazen, or shikantaza, is the essence of Buddhist practice.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zen#Soto

So like I was saying, I don't believe enlightenment is impossible, and when I said I don't believe I'll achieve it, it's more that I'm not focusing on it and don't know what enlightenment means to me yet, all I know is that I'm not there yet, because I'm not at one with my body and mind, and the rest of the world yet. When I get to that point, I won't care about the label or be able to tell you what it feels like, because it will be my own enlightenment that I practiced towards and altered my life for.

Also, I'd like to thank you for starting this discussion today. I don't have anyone to talk to about Buddhism in my real life, not anymore anyway. It's already making me reconsider seeking out a master, lol. It's really putting it into perspective that talking about these things really does kind of help both parties, even when I'm the one answering the questions. Otherwise I mostly just write about it and express myself on a piece of paper with a pen.

This has been fun and revealing so far.