a thoughtful web.
Good ideas and conversation. No ads, no tracking.   Login or Take a Tour!
comment by user-inactivated
user-inactivated  ·  4063 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: LAX Shootings: Propaganda of the Deed?

The argument is that power corrupts. But someone has to have power, and I'd rather it be government employees who make us take our shoes off than people with guns who make our planes fly into buildings.

Yes, the 3 oz. rule is probably misguided. Yes, TSA employees hoarded x-rays of semi-naked women. Yes, they aren't all particularly committed to their jobs. No, this does not mean the organization shouldn't exist, or that it is comprised of "terrorists," or that it doesn't fulfill a useful function. Those who call for the dismantling of the TSA must provide an alternative. Pre-2001 airport security is not an option. Period.





humanodon  ·  4062 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I don't quite think that "power corrupts" is the argument. To me, it seems like the power vested in the TSA is most often misused because the TSA personnel are under-trained and of dubious quality due to lack of rigor in the hiring and selection process. Of course, the cheapest and easiest way to give people the impression of security, power and authority is to have a lot of bodies on the ground. But, consider the stress involved with the job as well as the sheer volume of people they have to screen. I don't think the average TSA agent is reliably up to the task.

My argument is: if you're going to have a TSA, quit fucking around and do it right so that real, tangible security is present and available, because what exists now is a gigantic waste of time and money and greatly empowers a number of people who by and large, are unaccustomed to having authority, much less using it effectively and ethically.

As for the "terrorist" thing. I never subscribed to that, but I do think that the TSA makes inexperienced passengers more fearful as well as any passengers who might resemble "persons of interest" which often seems to be blatant racial profiling.

user-inactivated  ·  4062 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I think you're right, but remember the utter lack of qualification one needs to become a police officer in this country and despair over the TSA ever becoming a more effective force.

    because what exists now is a gigantic waste of time and money

In 1995 it was pretty easy to bring a gun on a plane, for anyone, and now it's almost impossible! I've never personally experienced safety lapses from TSA agents I've encountered; on the contrary they all seem over-zealous in the execution of their jobs. (However on two occasions I've "subverted" the system due to extenuating circumstances and on both they've been understanding and humane.)

I would agree that anyone (say a child) first encountering the TSA security measures would be frightened and have a bad experience, but that seems like a price that has to be paid.

Racial profiling is a separate argument. Using stereotypes is efficient, unfortunately. I'm also completely sure that at some level the TSA higher-ups have instructed the agents on the ground to profile on the basis of race. There's blame to go around there, maybe, but it's different blame.

humanodon  ·  4062 days ago  ·  link  ·  

    In 1995 it was pretty easy to bring a gun on a plane, for anyone, and now it's almost impossible!

See, this is where I disagree. People motivated at flouting the system will find a way. There is already speculation that non-metallic guns have been developed.

And while you may have "subverted" the system on two occasions, well, you are white are you not?

I don't really think that the argument that using stereotypes being efficient is a very strong argument. That's like saying that dynamite fishing is a good way to fish because the total number of fish 'caught' using this method is higher than more targeted methods. While it may be true that catching persons of interest is vital to national security, but I am willing to wager that they have "caught" far fewer legitimate persons of interest than they profess to have at the cost of banning a much higher number of people from flying. Yeah, not flying at all is safer than flying, but not living is also less risky than living.

user-inactivated  ·  4062 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Yeah I've read about the 3D-printable, non-metallic guns. It's an escalation thing -- just because it's possible that soon people will be able to shoot up planes again does not mean we should have been letting them do it easily for the last 15 years. Logical fallacy.

I'm white. It wasn't like that, though. I just mean that I've anecdotally had a thoroughly decent experience with the TSA. A close friend of mine is Pakistani and he gets pulled out every time he flies in that direction. Wasn't trying to disprove any sort of racial bias; it exists.

Racial profiling is a separate argument. If TSA officers do indulge in it (evidence suggests they do), it's surely because they've been ordered to. The allocation of blame for the sexual misconduct allegations etc. and for using racial profiling belong separately.

humanodon  ·  4062 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Did you click the link? It's not about 3D printable guns, which though non-metallic are not exactly the kind of thing I was talking about. I was talking about the rumors of ceramic guns developed by the CIA.

Most of my experiences with TSA have been at points of entry to the U.S. which tend to be busier airports. Certainly I understand that my view of the TSA is not representative of all individual TSA agents, but I stand by what I say.

user-inactivated  ·  4062 days ago  ·  link  ·  

    Did you click the link? It's not about 3D printable guns, which though non-metallic are not exactly the kind of thing I was talking about. I was talking about the rumors of ceramic guns developed by the CIA.

I didn't, because I've heard of that. I was saying that yeah not only is that possible, it may soon be printable.

And yeah, it really just depends. I'm white, you may not be, it's hard to talk about the TSA because really we're talking about two different organizations when we come at it from two different racial perspectives.