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comment by _refugee_
_refugee_  ·  3936 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: On Seeing the 100% Perfect Girl One Beautiful April Morning, by Haruki Murakami

    A lot of those are bullshit. Actually, most of those are bullshit. Perhaps all of them.

Have you not watched Seinfeld? Because if you had, you'd understand that that was exactly the point I was trying to make. Seinfeld is notoriously picky and has broken up with girls because of, say, the sound of their voice or the way they laugh. Moreover, I posit that they're only bullshit inasmuch as I haven't met someone whose good traits would overpower these perceived negative traits(except for the kid thing - plus, you don't know how bad his teeth were! - possibly further evidence I am Seinfeld).

As for the number of people you've met that you'd consider dating, well, that's cool and good for you? I wasn't leveraging my accusation, as you could term it, at anyone specifically on Hubski. I've seen it happen in real life and trust me, you can tell when reasons move from the "flippantly spurious" to the "downright ridiculous category." Stuff like "I'm not interested in even giving him my phone number because he has a buzz cut and from that alone I'm going to decide he's in the military and I have made a completely arbitrary decision not to date anyone who's ever been in the military, ever" or "I only want to date lawyers because I want to date people who have been to grad school" or "I'm not comfortable dating anyone who's not my skin tone" (which by the way is blatant racism; sure you're allowed to have preferences but if those are based solely on race, it's still racism).

Well then good. Go find thyself both. You're allowed to want what you want and it's also allowed to be different than what I want.





Kafke  ·  3935 days ago  ·  link  ·  

    Have you not watched Seinfeld?

Nope. Not at all.

    Seinfeld is notoriously picky and has broken up with girls because of, say, the sound of their voice or the way they laugh. Moreover, I posit that they're only bullshit inasmuch as I haven't met someone whose good traits would overpower these perceived negative traits(except for the kid thing - plus, you don't know how bad his teeth were! - possibly further evidence I am Seinfeld).

I find that I have an ideal, and then compare/contrast to that ideal. The closer the match, the more likely I'd date them. But if just one trait is off, yea, that's being just picky :P.

    As for the number of people you've met that you'd consider dating, well, that's cool and good for you? I wasn't leveraging my accusation, as you could term it, at anyone specifically on Hubski.

I realize. I was just responding to your comment. Because I guess from an outside perspective, it looks like I have a lot of ridiculous reasons/standards.

    I've seen it happen in real life and trust me, you can tell when reasons move from the "flippantly spurious" to the "downright ridiculous category."

Ridiculous to you perhaps.

    (which by the way is blatant racism; sure you're allowed to have preferences but if those are based solely on race, it's still racism).

I disagree. You are basically relating racism to dating preferences. I'm not a homophobe because I won't date a male. I have no problems with different ethnicities or sexualities. But I wouldn't date specific ones. That's just personal preference, not racism/homophobia.

    Well then good. Go find thyself both. You're allowed to want what you want and it's also allowed to be different than what I want.

That's what I'm working on.

_refugee_  ·  3935 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Racism - the act of judging someone based solely on their race

Saying you will not date someone because of their race - judging someone based solely on their race

You're not a homophobe and evidence exists to demonstrate that sexual preference is not based solely on your feelings on the topic of whether you like dicks. At this point there are clearly biological and/or genetic factors related to whether someone is queer, gay, bi, etc. Meanwhile, there are absolutely no genetic or biological factors identified in whether or not you "like" people of different races because guess what. Race is just a skin color. It's nothing more than that; there's no other difference between a black man and a white man than the amount of melatonin in their skin. Sexual preference = something you can't help. Race = something you can't help. But making a blanket statement that there are entire races you won't date makes a huge judgement call about that entire group of people based on knowing ONE THING about them - the color of their skin. Assuming that you know any more about that entire group of people solely because of the color of their skin amounts to stereotyping , gross generalizations, and - you got it - racism.

    ridiculous to you perhaps

Frankly, I don't even understand the point of your original comment in its entirety or this comment here. You go from calling my preferences "picky" to them essentially implying that my findings of someone else's standards to be "ridiculous" is a personal definition and one you disagree with. It's not okay for me to find someone else's standards ridiculous but it's okay for you to find mine picky? ooooo kay dude.

On a side note, your giant copy/pastings are kind of annoying. I understand you're replying to the text of my comment. You don't need to show me, say, entire paragraphs of what I've written in order for me - or anyone - to understand what you are responding to. It's the beauty of a forum - we all can already see, and if we aren't smart enough to figure out the context then I'd say the point of hubski has already been pretty much lost.

Kafke  ·  3935 days ago  ·  link  ·  

    Assuming that you know any more about that entire group of people solely because of the color of their skin amounts to stereotyping , gross generalizations, and - you got it - racism.

I never said anything of the sort. I said I'm not attracted to people with certain skin colors. Just as I'm not attracted to people with certain looks. Just as I'm not attracted to people with dicks. It's all the same line of reasoning. It's not that I went out and said "ethnicity X is obviously worse because of their skin color". No, I said "ethnicity X is a-okay, but I wouldn't date one". Just like I wouldn't date a guy, or someone I don't find attractive. Doesn't mean I would hate them because of it.

    It's not okay for me to find someone else's standards ridiculous but it's okay for you to find mine picky?

What is considered picky is an opinion. I never stated otherwise. It's not a bad or good thing to be picky/not picky. It's just an observation.

    On a side note, your giant copy/pastings are kind of annoying. I understand you're replying to the text of my comment. You don't need to show me, say, entire paragraphs of what I've written in order for me - or anyone - to understand what you are responding to.

I quote/copy the different sections of the comment so I can address each point individually. It makes it much easier to see exactly what I'm responding to, rather than just responding to the comment as a whole.

    we all can already see, and if we aren't smart enough to figure out the context then I'd say the point of hubski has already been pretty much lost.

I find that the point of hubski doesn't rely on whether or not people quote. There's a reason the markup was added in the first place (to support this kind of discussion). If hubski didn't need it (or doesn't want it) the function would be removed.

_refugee_  ·  3935 days ago  ·  link  ·  

So, you are making a blanket statement about an entire group of people based on their race. It doesn't matter if the statement is "I am not attracted to them" or "They are all skinflints." The statement remains racist.

You are allowed to have preferences. If you have a preference about not dating an entire race of people, it is a racist preference, i.e., it is a preference based solely on race.

You do not have to hate a race of people in order to act in a racist manner. You are interpreting racism to mean something akin to "Walt Kowalski sitting on the front porch of his house calling his neighbors spics and gooks." Racism, like many things, is a spectrum. I am not saying you hate an entire class of people because your preference is racially biased. I am not saying you use racial slurs or would deny someone a job because of their race.

I have made, essentially, a proof in my prior post. Allow me to use variables this time to make it more clear.

  A= being racist
  B = making a judgment about a class of people based on their race
  C = deciding that you won't date ANY people of a race, because of their race 

  A = B
  B = C 
  Therefore, A = C. 

  QED, bitches. Until you can prove to me that deciding you won't date any people of a race because of their race is somehow NOT making a judgment call about a class of people based on their race, you have not proven that doing so is not racist. (Because I highly doubt you can disprove the first assertion.) 
Racism, like let's say all things, is a spectrum and it is not black-and-white. You don't have to spit on your black neighbors or assume they all smoke pot and Cools or call them "porch monkeys" in order to be racist.

If you say you are not attracted to a certain race you are saying "I am not attracted to that skin color." Because that's the only difference there is.

How is that not racist?

    It makes it much easier to see exactly what I'm responding to, rather

I believe this is what that thing called "paragraphs" are for. But, Hubski as you wish; it's not my place to tell you what to do. You are entitled to do what you want and I am entitled to find it profoundly annoying.

Edit: You don't have to hate women to be sexist. So why would you have to hate other races to be racist?

Kafke  ·  3935 days ago  ·  link  ·  

    So, you are making a blanket statement about an entire group of people based on their race. It doesn't matter if the statement is "I am not attracted to them" or "They are all skinflints." The statement remains racist. You are allowed to have preferences. If you have a preference about not dating an entire race of people, it is a racist preference, i.e., it is a preference based solely on race.

It's about appearance. Just like how I don't find people with outward noses attractive. I don't find certain skin tones attractive. Just like I don't find bald women attractive. It's not about race/ethnicity, it's about appearance.

    Until you can prove to me that deciding you won't date any people of a race because of their race is somehow NOT making a judgment call about a class of people based on their race, you have not proven that doing so is not racist.

As I said. It's purely an appearance thing. I have plenty of close friends that are of every ethnicity. Ethnicity does not influence what I think of them as a person. And what I think of the person's behavior or intelligence isn't the only thing that goes into whether or not I'd date someone. You seem to imply it is.

    If you say you are not attracted to a certain race you are saying "I am not attracted to that skin color." Because that's the only difference there is.

Yes, that is what I'm saying. I'm not attracted to certain skin tones.

    How is that not racist?

Because I don't look down on people I don't find attractive. I don't prevent them from talking to me or working with me. Just because I won't date another man doesn't mean I'm a homophobe or sexist. Just like I won't date certain ethnicities. I have no problems with them (just like I have no problems with the LGBT community). It's just my personal preferences when it comes to relationships.

    Edit: You don't have to hate women to be sexist. So why would you have to hate other races to be racist?

Perhaps it's a difference in understanding the terms sexist and racist. Could you please define them then? I was under the impression the terms meant discriminating against a certain gender/ethnicity. As I've mentioned several times, I have no problems with men, or different ethnicities. I just wouldn't date them. That doesn't mean I'm sexist/racist.

If refusing to date certain ethnicities makes me racist, refusing to date the same gender makes people homophobic and sexist. It doesn't. In either case.

No judgement calls are being made. Particularly when it comes to relationships.

_refugee_  ·  3935 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Seriously are you asking me to define a term I have already defined twice in this conversation?

Congrats, you win. A big A+ for refusing to even fully read the conversation! My table is flipped, game is over, I'm out.

But your dating preferences? Still racist.

Kafke  ·  3935 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Your dating preferences? Still sexist.

_refugee_  ·  3935 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Actually, I hate to spoil this for you, but I'm

| A BIG FUCKING FLAMING QUEER BISEXUAL, |

I've got the exes to prove it, so a) You can take that back, and B) as I have previously stated and you have probably already quoted me on, there's a difference between preferences you choose, e.g., skin tone, and preferences you are biologically disposed towards, i.e., gender.

Thanks. Please feel free to QQ now.

Also, I'd encourage you to try to not make assumptions about gender and sexuality over the interet like you just did ever again.

Kafke  ·  3935 days ago  ·  link  ·  

My bad:

Most people's dating preferences? Still sexist.

Better?

I can't choose what I'm attracted to. And you of all people should be able to understand that. Being attracted to a certain skin tone is no different than being attracted to a certain gender. And that's no different than having some sexual fetish. It all falls in line in the same way. You can't choose what you are attracted to.

That's why I'm so chill with the LGBT community. They can't choose who they are attracted to and neither can I. No need to judge because of that.

Please explain how I can "choose" who I'm attracted to. Isn't that the whole argument the LGBT community is trying to make? That you can't? It's not like I can magically just be turned on by anything.

_refugee_  ·  3935 days ago  ·  link  ·  

You are not biologically or genetically predisposed to dislike (or not be attracted to) certain races.

Moreover, even if you were, that wouldn't make it not racist. It would just make it inherent racism.

Meanwhile, in the LGBT community, as I have stated, there is evidence that gender preferences have biological or genetic roots.

You are arguing this point because you do not want to view yourself as discriminating. Isn't it better to acknowledge the difference in racial treatment, and, if you're okay with not dating those races, move on? Some people, like me, are going to find it racist, and by my definition, which I've already stated multiple times, it undeniably is. It doesn't seem to bother you to make that judgment call on attractiveness based on the race of other people - it just bothers you to get called "racist" for it. Look. Some people are going to call you racist for it.

Kafke  ·  3935 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Can you back that statement please? I have not once made an active decision/choice towards what I'm attracted to.

    that wouldn't make it not racist. It would just make it inherent racism.

So I guess there's inherent sexism as well?

What's your explanation for sexual fetishes then? People choose to only be turned on by certain obscure things? That's a choice? What about pedophiles? They chose to be attracted to children?

That's a pretty bigoted and hypocritical worldview.

I can't choose which ethnicity or personality, or eye color or any other weird thing I might find attractive. Just like how I find inward noses attractive and am repulsed by outward ones. I guess I'm nose-ist as well, right?

God damn. How ignorant can you be? Just as people can't choose to be straight or gay, people can't choose what they are attracted to. It's all the same goddamn thing.

Edit: It's about as racist as being attracted only females being sexist is. And at that point, I'm okay. I'm not sexist because I only like females. And I'm not racist for only liking one ethnicity. Unless you are claiming 90% of the world is sexist.

_refugee_  ·  3935 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Aw, man, you caught me! That's my problem. I'm ignorant. My bad. Lemme go get some education.

Whether or not you can choose it, you are making a judgment about an entire class of people based on their skin tone.

A Jewish person might decide for religious reasons that he only wants to date other Jewish people. He may have a very good reason for this, for instance he wants to raise his children in the Jewish tradition or he wants to have a Jewish wedding or whatever. It's still discriminatory.

In ways, dating is about discrimination. Yes, you're nose-ist, and I'm age-ist.

    people can't choose what they are attracted to

Can you back that up? Moreover, just because you don't think you've made a conscious decision, doesn't mean that a decision hasn't been made - a choice that you weren't born with, already formed in your consciousness.

I don't pretend to be an expert on sexual fetishes or what causes them but I suspect it is a multifold scenario with many variables and that many people have different "causes" or what-have-you behind their fetishes. I would posit that is far too broad a subject and one in which I have too little knowledge for me to comment on.

Kafke  ·  3935 days ago  ·  link  ·  

    you are making a judgment about an entire class of people based on their skin tone.

Except I'm not. I'm not making any judgements. It's "what I'm attracted to" vs "what I'm not attracted to". I don't act differently towards those people because of it. I don't think of them any differently. I just don't think of them as datable. And most people I don't consider datable. Which shouldn't really be the concern of anyone, since I'm only going to be in a relationship with one person (ideally) anyway.

    In ways, dating is about discrimination. Yes, you're nose-ist, and I'm age-ist.

Except you are totally butchering what it means. And you are applying both definitions onto the person. Which is wrong. I'm not racist. I just don't want to date them. I'm not nose-ist. I just don't want to date them. You aren't age-ist, you just don't want to date them. "ist" would imply you treat them differently and as less-than.

    Can you back that up? Moreover, just because you don't think you've made a conscious decision, doesn't mean that a decision hasn't been made - a choice that you weren't born with, already formed in your consciousness.

If it's a choice, I should be able to choose otherwise. And I can't. If it's not a conscious choice, it's not a choice.

    I don't pretend to be an expert on sexual fetishes or what causes them but I suspect it is a multifold scenario with many variables and that many people have different "causes" or what-have-you behind their fetishes. I would posit that is far too broad a subject and one in which I have too little knowledge for me to comment on.

I'm willing to bet it's approximately the same thing that "causes" gender preferences and any other sexual related thing. Considering it's all effecting the same thing anyway. As I said, gender is thrown into the mix with everything else. It's not "special". It's just yet another preference on top of the hundreds possibly thousands I already have. There's nothing special about it. So stop acting like there is.

Edit: Skin Tone / ethnicity isn't special either. And I'm surprised you latched onto this instead of continuing the discussion from earlier. I think you just wanted to call someone racist :P