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comment by kleinbl00
kleinbl00  ·  3908 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: Scifi club: Rendezvous with Rama discussion/voting for club #6

I think it's worth pointing out that AC Clarke never really cared too much for his human characters. He was far more interested in their environment. Many of the narrative constructs of AC Clarke novels reflect this: he'll come up with any mechanism he can to explain his environments instead of experiencing them through first person.

He got really good at it with Rendezvous. The basic story is "here's a big damn generation ship, let's explore the mechanics." He's got the bottom-up perspective from various human explorers, none of which we stick with for any real time when they're in the ship. He's got the captain, who expounds orders from the UP in such a way that they're condensed for the audience. He's got the UP, which can postulate about raw physics. And he's got their arrangements in space, which allows him to talk about the physics of the rest of the solar system.

Compare and contrast with Lem's Solaris or Roadside Picnic from a few months ago - the Russians were in your face about mysterious alien technology. What is it? You don't know; you're a linguist. What is it? You don't know; you're a stalker. That style doesn't work for Clarke - even in his first person stories like A Meeting With Medusa he throws out these long first-person flights of narrative fancy where it's clear the perspective you're getting is:

    “No one would have believed in the last years of the nineteenth century that this world was being watched keenly and closely by intelligences greater than man's and yet as mortal as his own; that as men busied themselves about their various concerns they were scrutinised and studied, perhaps almost as narrowly as a man with a microscope might scrutinise the transient creatures that swarm and multiply in a drop of water.”

I think that, more than anything, is the big change Clarke would run into were he to rewrite Rama today. Tom Wolfe changed everything; stream-of-consciousness and limited first person became much more accepted than 3rd person omniscient. I doubt Clarke would get to pull the old sci fi saw of "one world government, rampant polygamy, religion subverted by science BECAUSE I SAID SO" that makes up so much of Clarke's, Heinlein's and Asimov's ouvre. In fact, I don't need to guess - Clarke teamed up with Gentry Lee to do sequels to Rama and they're fucking terrible. They're also much more first person, much more engaged with (terrible) characters and much less filled with a grandiose top-down exploration of mystery than Rama or Childhood's End. If you look at it, even Clarke started to flip on this; Songs of Distant Earth and the latter Odyssey books are more character driven... but also prone to bizarre flights of "Conde Nastism" where the old 3rd-person omniscient GodNarrator just lays down some exposition.

That said, I don't know that I'd take a different approach with Rama. I initially suggested it because Blindsight owes so much to it, yet bungles everything that Clarke gets right. The POV in Blindsight is positively claustrophobic, which works when your characters are likeable, yet I would gladly watch Watts' characters experience a "Will it blend?" video. The "interplanetary politics" aspect of Rama is a narrative device that allows the author to expound on his cleverness, while the "intersocietal politics" aspect of Blindsight is a cheap shot that allows the author to pull plot developments out of his ass.

For me, Rama is a perfect example of explorers confronting a mystery and finding it benign. A point Harry Harrison made in just about every book he wrote (notably the Stainless Steel Rat series and especially the Deathworld trilogy) is that interstellar warfare is a null concept. The resources necessary are too vast and the plunder possible is too limited to bother. David Brin, when he writes "malevolent aliens" does not write of conquerers, he writes of assassins extinguishing whole species long distance as an afterthought.

I fundamentally distrust the notion of a space-faring race crossing light years just to fuck with us. It's xenophobic, short-sighted and stupid. V was based on the premise that lizard people would cross the universe to take our water (yeah, hydrogen & oxygen! I know!). That's pretty much the default position in sci fi - "mars needs women." It's bullshit. "We, your overwhelmingly superior space-faring overlords, have expended supernovae worth of energy for the express purpose of parking our impressively malevolent jump ships in orbit to get in your grille." The good sci fi - Rama, District 9, Alien Nation, etc - either postulates a future in which alien contact is either accidental or the consequences of circumstance.

That's why I like Rama. "Don't mind us, just coming through, your star was in a good spot on the way to somewhere we actually want to be." That's why I liked Roadside Picnic - "Don't mind us, we just needed to take a leak on our way to Rigel IV. BTW, careful with the beer cans, the edges are sharp." I think it takes an extremely limited intellect to look out at the stars and think "those fuckers are coming to get me" and a distinct lack of imagination to justify it with "because they don't like my face."

*

NAUSCAA NAUSCAA NAUSCAA

Which version? I own the Japanese; I haven't seen the American dub. Well, I haven't seen all of it. It's easy enough to find online and it's got Patrick Stewart doing voices.





zebra2  ·  3908 days ago  ·  link  ·  

You could really tell that Clarke didn't care so much about his characters. It was somewhat refreshing, actually, to not have the book bogged-down too much with character development when there's this whole world to explore.

Too bad about Rama II, I was wondering if I should read it or not.

I'd also like to see some discussion on Blindsight eventually, we may have to do that one soon, since at least a few have already read it. I'm not so sure I got the same sense from Blindsight's intersocietal politics as you did, but there are some turns in there that I'm not so sure where they came from. But Blindsight's narrative has an important quality that you don't really get in Rama. In Rama, it's either a mystery or it has a plausible explanation that is almost certainly the right one. In Blindisght though, particularly with regards to motivations, the characters are guessing as best they can, but they get it wrong multiple times, and in the end you're not sure if they were right at all about anything. Then it turns out your narrator is prone to projection and has been mischracterizing the other characters. Too many authors encounter the problem of making this world full of mystery, but then they have their characters muse about these mysteries and just happen to solve them all while the author gently prods you saying "See, see? He's got it!" It's one of the great folly of all fiction, really. Watts fucks with that notion. You get the whole story through a filter, and he reminds you about it over and over. Were the aliens ever really even hostile or just self-defending? I'm not sure.

kleinbl00  ·  3908 days ago  ·  link  ·  

You're talking about the "unreliable narrator" which works when you've got a known, understood situation. "Who is Keyser Soze?" "What happened on the forest path?"

It doesn't work in Blindsight. It doesn't work at all.

You use unreliable narrators to give differing perspectives on a knowable thing. Even that last stupid little twist in Contact - "did she imagine the whole thing?" exists only to serve the purpose that the faithful deal with the doubts of others when they are certain of themselves. In Blindsight, Watts uses it to mask the fact that he hasn't figured out what the fuck he's doing, that he hasn't thought out the motivations of any of the characters, that he's constructed a society destined to implode and that the driving force behind his plot developments depends on logically inconsistent behavior from an entity that, according to his own story rules, can't exist.

"I dunno... maybe it happened this way! Maybe it happened that way! You're the audience, you figure it out."

No, asshole, write a decent story that doesn't have Great Pacific Gyre-sized plotholes so you don't have to hide behind "maybe I'm lying to you right now. You'll never know! 'cuz I'm so EDGY!"

Sorry. Fucking HATED that book.