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comment by user-inactivated
user-inactivated  ·  3821 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: Would a Google car sacrifice you for the sake of the many?

Google's modus operandi is not so much to sell people products as it is to provide them services. What if Google cars weren't owned or leased but provided a distributed driving service like Uber?

Couldn't the terms of that driving service stipulate that it would act in a certain way which might not prioritize preventing an accident to any particular car but would minimize injuries/deaths as much as possible for all users of the service? I'm not familiar with liability law like you seem to be so I'm honestly asking.

Alternatively, maybe Google could sell you the car but you would have to choose which automatic driving data service to connect it to. If you choose not to connect it to any automatic driving data service, it would act like a standard human-controlled car. But if you chose to connect it to a driving data service, that would come with a license agreement that the data service would control your car in a way that could injure or kill you.

I think it's a simplification to think of googlism as an innate aspect of the car/product when it's more a dynamic interaction between the car and an expansive data service. Even their current cars need a constant connection to work.





kleinbl00  ·  3821 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I think that's an excellent point. I suspect (and veen and I have discussed at length) that google is most likely to hit up auto manufacturers for licensing, which further complicates the issue. That's why I called it "googlism" instead of any specific product - if it were my business, I'd obfuscate liability with every move I made.

So the way this typically works in the land of liability disclaimers is

(1) I make you fill out a document whereby you foreswear any opportunity to hold me responsible for anything for any reason ever anywhere.

(2) I do something that kills you or almost kills you.

(3) You sue me anyway because it's not actually legal to sign away your life and any contract that overshoots the standards of reasonable risk generally gets invalidated the minute it rubs up against statute.

So it kind of boils down to the same thing - yeah, you can throw disclaimers at the problem til the sun goes out but you reach the point where a judge and/or jury says "Google can't make a service that will voluntarily, willfully injure its contractees regardless of how many degrees removed they are. "

veen  ·  3821 days ago  ·  link  ·  

To add, this Atlantic article talks about who is liable when a self-driving car fails. It suggests that the Google car is no different from other products and that the products liability laws will adjust.

    There’s no doubt that accidents involving autonomous vehicles will put challenging new liability questions before the courts. But that doesn’t mean the courts will be unable to address them. And it doesn’t mean that we have to put the autonomous-vehicle industry on hold so legislators can attempt to preemptively draft and enact an entirely new set of liability laws that anticipate everything that might go wrong. It’s an exercise that would be as impossible as it is unnecessary.
Merrill  ·  3796 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Well as far as I can figure, the "ism" applies in this case but I just have horrible retching feelings just reading or typing googlism, ugh. Now that I got that out of the way, what about how existing laws and how they are applied to the failure of a car that says it will react and brake better than you can or it did not see the other vehicle in the blind spot as well. Surely there are disclaimers and some laws already enacted that deal with these instances of automated control services. (ACS, I like that better) Is the failure of these services ultimately left on the consumer as they chose to implement or rely on them?

The future is tricky. That is my new catch phrase. Use it if you like.

user-inactivated  ·  3821 days ago  ·  link  ·  

That makes sense. There's a big difference between saying "the parachute might fail and you might die" versus "if the diving instructor doesn't like you he's allowed you disconnect you."

It will definitely be interesting to see how it all settles out. By and large I'm confident these will dramatically reduce injuries and deaths but Google is definitely opening itself up to a lot of lawsuits by being the first to try this.

kleinbl00  ·  3821 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I agree with you about the life-saving features but disagree about the lawsuits. I don't see Google deciding to play "the needs of the many outweigh" because liability law is pretty clearly "take care of your own." So long as the product is acting as advertised to you, to your advantage, they're good. This whole "Google as omnipotent force" aspect of it is a strawman, in my opinion.

user-inactivated  ·  3821 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I don't think they would actually do what's described in this article. I just meant that by being the first to market with self-driving vehicles they will be the target of all the initial lawsuits regarding the tech.