Interesting. I'm not against it. Let's ruminate on it. Ah, the toggle creep...
Li'l story. Every year for April Fools Day, Reddit does something jackassed. Reddit Mold. "Everyone's an Admin." "Team Periwinkle" or whatever the fuck that was. And every year, those of us in /r/defaultmods and other cloistered centers of power say "why don't you use that day to, you know, beta-test new site functionality? Like, I dunno, close the defaults for a day or hide karma or something. You know, so you could learn a little without truly pissing people off." And every year, they continue to do some jackassed thing like fucking time travel and shit. Know how you did "Illuminated" and it's within an inch or two of actually being a damn cool theme? Next April Fool's, give me like six pages of preferences. Take notes on usage. Let us see what works and what doesn't. I beta test for Eventide. I do this because I fell in love with their hardware nearly 20 years ago. And they've got some seriously sophisticated shit - they were doing physical modeling for their reverbs back in '94. All of their algorithms have preferences. Some of their algorithm preferences have "advanced" preferences. And some of their "advanced" preferences have "tedium" preferences. That is, in fact, the word they use. And while most people will never dive into the "tedium" of Swept Combs, if you decide to do so you can truly conjure magic. Don't fear preferences. Just arrange them such that they help, rather than hinder.
|"Team Periwinkle" or whatever the fuck that was. The joke was that Reddit bought Team Fortress 2, and implemented the game on Reddit.
Nope, but it beats the hell out of zero days. Also, "Illuminated" is a style you can run right now. Go check it out. We whinged and mk let us keep it. Then we whinged some more and insomniasexx polished it to the point where it's nearly usable. I still switch to it sometimes.
Note the posts by water and tally below! If enough of us very-active-hubskiers use this ignore function, I'm not sure exactly who is going to last through their first seven days using hubski. I am, after some thought, extremely and totally against this feature. I understand why it can definitely help us (and yes I just browsed global, yikes) but I DO NOT think it helps hubski at all.
...but then, you're often of the mindset that options are mandates. Back in the halcyon days of PHPbbs and forums without voting, it was assumed that lurking was expected behavior. One didn't stumble into a new forum and start out with HEY GUISE NICE CITE WATS UP, one lurked, read the faq, browsed the threads and opined only when one had something to contribute. Then, of course, /b/ won over /. and we ended up with a "digg this" mentality. And now here we are. I never had a Digg account. I browsed it for a week. I browsed Reddit for a month before I had an account and lurked for another month before I posted my first comment. I recognize this makes me positively deviant by today's standards, but the comments you're talking about say, essentially, "that would hurt my feelings." Here's the thing: If I think you'd be better served by sitting down and reading for a while before you contribute, and you think you'd be better served by contributing before you sit down and read, allowing me to ignore your ass for a week serves both our purposes: - I don't have to deal with your "HEY GUISE WHOS ALSO FROM TEH REDDITS" phase - You don't have to deal with my "GET OFF MY LAWN NEWFAG" phase ...and (x) number of days later, we can converse like civil people.
That, or, enough people use this feature that no one sticks around for longer than seven days because it's a bit of a graveyard. This reminds me of shadowbanning. Your solution does not differentiate people who join and immediately "get" hubski ... they get screwed too. Maybe they leave. If it comes to something like this, I think I prefer the up-front approach I mentioned below of alerting new users that they aren't allowed to post for a few days (or maybe until they do their first hubwheel thingie). Essentially forcing them to lurk a bit and learn what sort of content we encourage at hubski -- but not in an underhanded way. Neither of these solutions is perfect.
Hey - enough people bitched about tags going away that we got tags back. Rather than shout-out, lemme just say this: HEY HUBSKI DEVELOPER P33PS: Do me a solid, since you've got the code. Cross-check your list of followers with a list of users active in the past 90 days. How long is the trail of dead? I'm gonna guess "hella long." Rate of attrition is a serious thing around here and, by definition, those that flame out after a week are not a part of the steady-state culture. An optional 1-week ignore would have allowed all of us to bypass the SRS invasion, for example.
And your solution might increase that rate of attrition by causing users who would have become followers to join the "trail of dead" instead of sticking it out. If, when I had joined, certain crucial members hadn't shared my posts, commented on them, responded to my comments, etc -- I probably wouldn't have stayed.I'm gonna guess "hella long." Rate of attrition is a serious thing around here and, by definition, those that flame out after a week are not a part of the steady-state culture.
If I ignored you, would you know? If ten people ignored you, would you be prevented from posting? If a hundred people ignored you, could you not have a conversation? So riddle me this, batman. What was your first post? And how long had you been here when you made it?
You are willfully ignoring my point. If enough people had been using your feature when I joined hubski, ten, a hundred, whatever, then I likely would not have stayed because the conversations would have struck me as nonexistent or very limited. Don't remember/no clue. Probably 2-3 days, which is easily long enough. Six hours is long enough if you're intelligent. Do you have anything to say about this as an alternative?So riddle me this, batman. What was your first post? And how long had you been here when you made it?
If it comes to something like this, I think I prefer the up-front approach I mentioned below of alerting new users that they aren't allowed to post for a few days (or maybe until they do their first hubwheel thingie). Essentially forcing them to lurk a bit and learn what sort of content we encourage at hubski -- but not in an underhanded way.
I'm not. I didn't know that was your point. If this is your point: ...then I would point out that the people that would have ignored you for long enough for you to bounce would not be the people who would have kept you in the first place. Here's another insight: I am not, in general, a hostile and antisocial individual (believe it or not). However, if I am feeling hostile and antisocial, IT BEHOOVES US BOTH not to interact. If I have already concluded that your capacity to irritate is due to your recent appearance, I will prejudge all comments from new people as irritating. If I'm in a state where all new comments irritate me, it benefits not only me, but those new people who are commenting to prevent me from interacting with them. And that's where you're ignoring my point: You see this as censorship. I see this as voluntary withdrawal. I'm not saying "keep the n00bs from posting." I'm not saying "silence the n00bs." I'm saying "let the n00bs go about their business without risking my wrath." I am one user. I wish for better tools to shape one user's experience. The impact of those tools will most directly affect one user, and may or may not have any effect whatsoever on the experience of other users (ignored users' comments still show up in your feed as a strikeout - it's not like they're X'd from the earth). Yet you think this is better: So whereas I'm saying "help me quiet the din of the chattering class with a better set of earplugs" you're saying "let's keep it down by enforcing a code of silence." Your alternative sucks. I'm not attempting to shape anyone's behavior but my own. I'm not attempting to curb anyone's user experience but my own. I'm not attempting to alter the makeup of the site for anyone but myself. You? You're inflicting a draconian and arbitrary solution on everybody.You are willfully ignoring my point.
If enough people had been using your feature when I joined hubski, ten, a hundred, whatever, then I likely would not have stayed because the conversations would have struck me as nonexistent or very limited.
If it comes to something like this, I think I prefer the up-front approach I mentioned below of alerting new users that they aren't allowed to post for a few days (or maybe until they do their first hubwheel thingie).
Well, if we did do anything like it, it would be default off, for sure. Also, 7 days is probably more than what would be effective. It's an interesting concept, that's worth some consideration. I have more to say on this, but unfortunately I'm on a 10 min break between a day long thing. I'll return to this.
If you're gonna change settings, can you do these two things? 1. When you hover your mouse over a setting, a text fades in (on the right side of the yes/no box) what the feature does. Not all names are self-explanatory, like feed-times. 2. Maybe change the alert settings to multiple checkboxes? Eg. "Get notified when you receive a:" This also helps break the now seemingly long list of settings.
#1 is easy enough and a good idea. We can do that. #2 is also a good idea, but will take some time. You would be surprised how crazy the code behind settings is. It's like a gordian knot. Untangling it has been on my to do list for some time, and settings will be much improved when I do. So that's a: "Yes, soon" and a "Yes, but I can't say when".