Pabst, there are some things that are simply not worth saying. You may completely and totally disagree with what the person is saying, but you know what? They're just not worth the energy. To me this happens when I'm facing someone and I realize that no matter what I'm going to say, that person isn't going to change their mind. Then in addition, I do not have the energy, fire, or willingness to stoop to their level in order to agree with them. (Pick one of the three or more.) Sometimes my mental dismissal is "I don't have the time for this." or "I don't care about this enough to argue with you." Sometimes it is "I so completely disagree with you on this subject that I cannot look on you with any respect for having this viewpoint, and in fact arguing this viewpoint with you gives it any sort of creedence and so therefore I refuse to do so." Keeping your mouth shut can be as much as sign of tiredness or unworthiness as anything else. I think it is a stronger person who knows when not to bother with an argument, than someone who is going to plunge into every single fight just to fight, just to show their bravado and "intelligence" and "my way is above all." Discussing a viewpoint suggests that that viewpoint has merit. Not all do. As I said in a different thread with 8bit, I was dating a guy who turned out to be batshit. When he told me that equal rights for both sexes would lead to more male sociopathy because men had an innate desire for sex that would cause them to become killers if they didn't get laid, that was an argument I didn't even bother to have. His statement was so wrong on so many levels that in fact I wasn't sure where I would start with it. Context helps too. If you have had multiple discussions with a person before and you can't get to a point where you either see eye-to-eye or agree to disagree, are you going to keep having arguments/discussions with them about future topics? Why? You know where they are going to go. (That helped me decide to leave that boy's assertion alone too; we had already tried to talk about a few other subjects and been unable to agree.) Usually I get into Facebook arguments when I am so tired of a given person's blatant stupidity that I must point it out; frequently, too, I am tired of that person in my feed and want them to unfriend me. I know this question isn't about Facebook, but I think that should be a consideration of what it takes to get involved in a verbal brawl. For the most part, other people's opinions aren't going to hurt you. Racism, sexism, etc - yes, those opinions will hurt you and you will find me stepping up for them pretty much anywhere and yes, especially here (but also in real life; I definitely accused someone of being, and I quote, "a sexist pig" at a 4th of July barbecue this year) - but there are also experiences on which I do not have any input because I recognize I don't know enough, and that's a great time to stay quiet too. Like, I'd (personally) stay out of any discussions about Israel and Palestine. I really don't know enough. That doesn't make me (or you) weak. That means you are capable of acknowledging and differentiating between times you should speak, and times you shouldn't.
yup.
Otherwise I'm on the same page as you with pretty much everything, though imma have to call you out about making them unfriend you, ms. passive agressive ;) Maybe I'm late or maybe I should just be grateful I came around to it, but I think I'm learning to choose my battles and generally chill out. I appreciate your input ref, thank you. Glad we're on the same page about that too. and boy oh boy I read that convo with 8bit I wanted to buy you a hug or something. Sometimes crazy is really good at hiding. P.S. I kinda want to question why you call me Pabst but I kinda just wanna let it flow.Usually I get into Facebook arguments when I am so tired of a given person's blatant stupidity that I must point it out.
It comes from the pablo, that's all. As for passive aggressive, I don't know. Stupidity enrages me. Let me rephrase that. What I perceive to be stupidity enrages me. It enrages me because I feel like it is a waste of my time. I like to get into people's faces about their stupidity on Facebook because I believe, in a way, that quietly unfriending them because of their opinions is almost like tacit compliance. "I don't like what you're saying but I'm not going to confront you about it." I guess that is where I draw my line about being a pussy. If you waste my time by being an idiot, yes, I am going to tell you about it. I am going to call you out on it. I want to become that person that you don't want to be friends with because I no longer want to be friends with you. And because said person has already wasted so much of my time by publicly being an idiot, I want them to know it, and I want them to do the work of removing me because I have already spent so much time sifting through their idiocy that I'm not going to just passively go to their page and let them "off the hook" as it were. I am going to flame them the fuck out. I think it is more accurate to call my behavior actively aggressive. When I make them unfriend me on Facebook I am very blatant about it. And, just so everyone doesn't go around thinking I'm a giant douche to my facebook friends all the time, this has happened about 3 times in my life, mmkay? Now I am going to pause and consider all of the pejorative words used in this thread - i.e., "pussy" and "douche" ("douche" was nearly "prick" or "dick" but i rethought it) quietly, alone, and to myself, without judgement. P.S. to buying me a hug, ah, well, somehow I keep finding these winners, you know what I mean? Some quiet non-judgmental reflection would be well-served there except I can't ever seem to get to the end of that particular problem. And no, I'm not going to ask hubski or kleinbl00, because the answer is very likely, "It's something about you you need to change," and other people might be able to very accurately say that and cut me with it (but not in a bad way, necessarily) but I don't think I'm going to be able to change it until I suss it out and conclude it myself. And accept said conclusion.
Note: Italics mine not ref's. You make a lot of good points here. The phrase "you waste my time" jumps out at me because it just seems that reading or engaging in idiocy is a personal choice to waste our own time. It doesn't take too long into a thread to be able to decide if you want to choose to read on. It doesn't take too long to decide whether to waste time or to invest that time elsewhere. We have agency. We can decide how to waste our own time. On line, no one wastes it for us. In person, it's similar, but more personal and more difficult to withdraw. nowaypablo 24 hours after instigating this discussion - where do you stand?If you waste my time by being an idiot, yes, I am going to tell you about it. . . . . And because said person has already wasted so much of my time by publicly being an idiot, I want them to know it
I watched Trainspotting last night, it's on Netflix. Theme was nothing about the subject but it had me thinking about what role, place, and rights we have withinin the lives of others. It is not healthy or possible to live on your own, and it is not possible to make decisions on your own, that won't impact everything around you. With respect (and understanding) to ref, this is partly the confrontation that made me sick to my stomach over time. July 4th guy deserves the worst, so does bad date guy. Their Facebook variants, just the same. However in my current case, I'm not personally being challenged, threatened, or insulted by what's on my Feed. I'm offended, confused, baffled, but to me that's just a reminder that I've got a grip on what I think is right. I balance that by reminding myself how much of my mind is constructed of opinions that I must make vulnerable to influence and perspective, but there are core ideas that define my sense of right and wrong, and bingo lil, if those are challenged directly to me then those are the battles I will choose to fight, as you said. I won't feel weak for not defending or instructing everyone what I think is right, even if it's "truly" right whatever that means, cause that's stupid and a waste of time. Let me stop ranting and replace it with this:
This is really what I want. If you ask me where I stand, it'd be whichever side or party is advocating this, francopoli's side.If you waste my time by being an idiot, yes, I am going to tell you about it. . . . . And because said person has already wasted so much of my time by publicly being an idiot, I want them to know it.
"Speak only when it improves upon the silence." - Mahatma Gandhi
. Replace silence in this case with Angry Yelling Screaming, there are few times when speaking will improve on it, I won't bother when it does not. I was raised to believe that men should have a stoic, silent character. That listening is more important that speaking. That when you talk, have something to say that adds to the conversation, moves a talk forward or opens a mind to a new way of looking at things. I'm not saying I'm good at these ideals although I try. Still, I love this outlook at life and it works well for my personality.
I did this exact same thing with "A Clockwork Orange", but I think it may have been serendipitous in that case.Also don't make the mistake I did and not notice the Glaswegian-English dictionary in the back until you'd finished.
Woah! didn't know there was a book, only the film was suggested to me. I'll check it out!
Yeah that makes sense, i got you. I like to get into people's faces about their stupidity on Facebook because I believe, in a way, that quietly unfriending them because of their opinions is almost like tacit compliance. "I don't like what you're saying but I'm not going to confront you about it."