a thoughtful web.
Good ideas and conversation. No ads, no tracking.   Login or Take a Tour!
comment by kleinbl00
kleinbl00  ·  3694 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: The Truth About the Wars

That's... an intriguing argument.

Your argument for the failure of W, by the way, closely parallels the best arguments I've seen for the failure of Gorbachev. He was an idealist Communist in a world of cynical kleptocrats and once the principles of communism were put to the test, the whole house of cards collapsed.





b_b  ·  3694 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I should note also that Obama isn't that great on history either. Speaking of Gorbachev, he was in the news trying to clue everyone in about what Putin's Big Idea in Ukraine is. It's exactly what everyone who has read any amount of Russian military history already knows: that Russia will never tolerate not having a buffer zone between Moscow and Europe. NATO on Russia's borders is unacceptable to Russia. Putin isn't "crazy", as the media portray him; he's simply following the script that all Russian leaders since Peter the Great have followed. It's tragic that we don't seem to know that. I suppose it's simpler and serves our interests more to claim that a foreign leader is crazy and erratic than to address the realpolitik in the room.

kleinbl00  ·  3694 days ago  ·  link  ·  

All the Cold Warists went NeoCon with Condi.

b_b  ·  3694 days ago  ·  link  ·  

W was a terrible president. I believe that with every ounce of political knowledge I possess. But I also believe that he's a genuine idealist. I truly believe that he thought Iraq and the Palestinian territories would be saved through democracy. When you hear him speak, especially post presidency, you can feel his sincerity. The problem is he's just not that smart, and his appreciation for history seems to be skin deep.

Cheney, on the other hand, is the devil incarnate. I don't think he believes in anything except himself. Cheney knows history, and chooses to believe he can outsmart it. Sadly, no one can escape history. Jon Stewart used to have this running Cheney-as-Darth-Vader bit, but I always found it inappropriate, because Vader is a redemptive character. Cheney is The Emperor, and his conceit buried a lot of people.

Tomorrow on Morning Edition they're airing an interview with W that covers the difference between the Gulf War and the Iraq War. I'm sure I'll not agree with what he has to say, but I'm interested in hearing him say it nonetheless.

kleinbl00  ·  3694 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I believe that W was keenly disinterested in the world around him and felt his understanding of the world was adequate for policymaking. He was a "shoot from the hip" president whose hip was a bad place to shoot from.

    One congressman -- the Hungarian-born Tom Lantos, a Democrat from California and the only Holocaust survivor in Congress -- mentioned that the Scandinavian countries were viewed more positively. Lantos went on to describe for the president how the Swedish Army might be an ideal candidate to anchor a small peacekeeping force on the West Bank and the Gaza Strip. Sweden has a well-trained force of about 25,000. The president looked at him appraisingly, several people in the room recall.

    ''I don't know why you're talking about Sweden,'' Bush said. ''They're the neutral one. They don't have an army.''

    Lantos paused, a little shocked, and offered a gentlemanly reply: ''Mr. President, you may have thought that I said Switzerland. They're the ones that are historically neutral, without an army.'' Then Lantos mentioned, in a gracious aside, that the Swiss do have a tough national guard to protect the country in the event of invasion.

    Bush held to his view. ''No, no, it's Sweden that has no army.''

    The room went silent, until someone changed the subject.

    A few weeks later, members of Congress and their spouses gathered with administration officials and other dignitaries for the White House Christmas party. The president saw Lantos and grabbed him by the shoulder. ''You were right,'' he said, with bonhomie. ''Sweden does have an army.''

New York Times Magazine 10/17/2004

Cheney, I feel, operates out of a place of deep cynicism. He was in the Nixon white house when Democrats dismantled it. He was in Congress when Clinton's CIA missed the bus on pretty much everything Iraq did have going on. I do not believe he views democrats, minorities, foreigners or the poor as human, but within the framework of those he does view as worthwhile, I believe he legitimately operates for their best interests.

b_b  ·  3694 days ago  ·  link  ·