a thoughtful web.
Good ideas and conversation. No ads, no tracking.   Login or Take a Tour!
comment by tacocat
tacocat  ·  3486 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: Dear America, get your head out of your ass about Bernie Sanders

    He is fairly strongly pro-Israel, which troubles me personally.

There's an issue of political expedience that gets overlooked by too many people. In this particular case, pro Israel is about the only position a US politician can be and keep his job. You basically got vehemently pro and pro. I want single payer healthcare goddammit but it's not politically expedient in the US so any politician who agrees with me isn't going to be able to deliver. Like vintage '08 Obama.

Take the TPP. Hypothetically. I personally think it's a fast track for every manufacturing job left in America to move to Asia. Among the pro corporate IP protections that seem to be in it. But Obama is very pragmatic and he's very in favor of it. It could be that the global political maneuvers that we're not privy to make it attractive to him strategically. Or he's a sell-out shill in the pocket of the "corporations" (quotes because it's a vague term that gets thrown around all the time. He can't be in all their pockets, some of them don't like the others. Whatever.) If you can follow me, I'm actually being less cynical than most people with strong opinions on these things and less cynical than I usually am about many things.

Anyway, national and international politics is this weird job where you have to make big utilitarian decisions that most people won't even know all the details of the pro/con you're weighing while still protecting a job you can literally be voted out of for pissing off too many people. Unless you live in China, then the voting not so much.





galen  ·  3485 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Absolutely. And it's fascinating/deeply frustrating for me to see the rarity with which politically expedient positions align with popular opinion--even purely domestically. The influence of advocacy groups, of ideologues, and of political cynicism, not to mention necessary foreign relations, on our process is overwhelming.

b_b  ·  3485 days ago  ·  link  ·  

There was a time not too long ago when being pro-Israel was considered an ideal and not simply a politically expedient position. You, unfortunately, have had to grow up not knowing much else besides Netanyahu, who is a monster. Not all Israeli politicians are like him.

Let's not forget that Bernie Sanders is Jewish, as are many of his current and former Democratic Senate colleagues. Off the top of my head, Carl Levin, Russ Feingold, Charles Shumer, Joe Lieberman, all Jewish, all strong supporters of Israel, and all with major liberal cred (maybe with the exception of Lieberman, who seems like a war monger sometimes). For these men I'm sure being pro-Israel has little to nothing to do with political expediency, and much more to do with deeply held convictions. (Of course there are many non-Jewish politicians who also see support for Israel as a matter of principle and not just convenience.)

Sadly, support for the ideal of Israel has become difficult in the last number of years thanks to Likud and their nonstop media machine, which by all accounts makes Fox News look like Walter Cronkite. I hope someday soon that Likud will go away, and that Israel will take a step back on their illegal encroachments into captured territory. Unfortunately, we saw in the last election that that day isn't going to come in the immediate term. But a bad government doesn't necessarily signify a bad state (we've had some really bad governments, obviously, but I think on the whole the US is a very positive state for the world). In the long game, support for democratic ideals, for human rights, for economic opportunity, all while protecting an entire people that the world has tried to do away with many times, is the right policy.