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comment by TheVenerableCain
TheVenerableCain  ·  3540 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: This is what white male privilege looks like  ·  

I understand that you're being purposefully sarcastic, but how exactly does "white male privilege" equate to an ability to defend oneself? Race and sex had nothing to do with the story besides act as basic descriptors of both the offenders and the victims. Don't you think that instead of spinning a tragedy to serve your own agenda (which, to be honest, seems rather hateful) you could comment on the actions of the security teams of KFC and the casino? Even speculating on the reasons behind an unprovoked attack, or ways to defend yourself in that situation. You could talk about the causes and dangers of heart palpitations. Any of these things could be infinitely more useful than smugly asking "where's his white privilege?" Better yourself.





Grendel  ·  3540 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Had it been a group of white men beating a black woman while the security guards refused to help her, would you still say that race and sex had nothing to do with the story? Or would that be a hate crime?

user-inactivated  ·  3540 days ago  ·  link  ·  

A lot of shit goes on in this world because people let themselves be so divisive. Yet here you are, feeling compelled to drive the wedge deeper and deeper through your words. It's a sad thing to witness.

Grendel  ·  3540 days ago  ·  link  ·  

You know what's a sad thing to witness? People who ignore the world around them and pretend that everything is okay.

user-inactivated  ·  3540 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I've never given any indication that I do. You however have readily indicated that you're willing to use language that does nothing but warp the issues at hand and polarize people. Such behavior only makes things worse.

Grendel  ·  3539 days ago  ·  link  ·  

But that's what you're doing.

user-inactivated  ·  3539 days ago  ·  link  ·  

There's a huge difference between using loaded words like "rape" or "genocide" versus the buzzwords that you choose to use. One has narrow definitions that respects the reader's ability to decide whether they're appropriately used or not and the other manipulates the readers into letting themselves be trapped into a certain mindset by preying on insecurities, ignorance, and pre-concieved notions. You use the latter.

lifestyled  ·  3540 days ago  ·  link  ·  

    Had it been a group of white men beating a black woman while the security guards refused to help her, would you still say that race and sex had nothing to do with the story? Or would that be a hate crime?

Why is it that people must automatically resort to these attempts at "gotcha" questions rather than actually addressing the point someone made?

You're intentionally trying to get an emotional charge out of this while refusing to engage. I thought hubski was meant to be better than reddit.

Grendel  ·  3539 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Because the story itself is not that interesting or even necessarily indicative of a greater problem, what's interesting is how it challenges people's ideas about "privilege" and hate crimes.

TheVenerableCain  ·  3540 days ago  ·  link  ·  

A fair point. I would probably be more upset that a group of men is beating on a woman. The bone and muscle structure of men tends to lead to them being stronger on average and therefore they could do longer lasting damage in a shorter time to a woman. I think that hate crime gets thrown around too easily. The Ku Klux Klan lynching a black person would be a hate crime. I don't think that a seemingly random attack between two parties of differing races should be classified as a hate crime. It's tough to accurately explore a person's motivations, but even if the situation was reversed, I don't think there is enough information given to determine a racial or gender (unsure if this is the correct form of the word) motivation.

Edit - I also think that I'm being influenced by the way my parents raised me. "Don't hit girls" and whatnot. I think that your hypothetical offends my ingrained sensibilities more than it logically makes a difference. I hesitate to use absolutes, but no group of people should be beating on anyone. Both situations involve repugnant acts and should be met with swift and decisive justice.

Grendel  ·  3540 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I was also taught that you should never hit a woman, or as we say in Italy "you don't touch a woman - not even with a flower". I always knew it was bullshit. Men are stronger on average, but there are plenty of big girls and small guys out there, and just because a woman is weaker and frailer than me, it doesn't mean she can't hurt me. It's ridiculous how some people say that men are the priviliged sex, when we can't even defend ourselves from violent women.

user-inactivated  ·  3540 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Morgan Freeman once expressed a way to stop racism: "Stop talking about it! I'm gonna stop calling you a white man, and I'm going to ask you to stop calling me a black man".

Do you think it is important to propogate the idea of someone's superiority, even if to moke it, if it means reinforcing the barrier you're trying to crush by acerbity of thought?

Grendel  ·  3540 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Morgan Freeman would be considered racist by many black people for saying that. Why? Because by suggesting that we should stop talking about race, he's not acknowledging the problems that blacks face because of their race.

It seems clear to me that people won't stop talking about race any time soon, so if you decide to stay silent all you've accomplished is to let someone else speak for you.

user-inactivated  ·  3540 days ago  ·  link  ·  

His words are not about staying silent one-sided: if we stop talking about racism as if race is something to consider when it comes to human rights, from both sides, and give both sides what they deserve as human beings (which isn't too much to ask anyway), then there would be no problem left to solve or even discuss.

Your action, however, didn't seem to have the purpose of doing something that will replace ignorance with knowledge: you mocked something that didn't need any more mocking. What was the point of that? To raise awareness? Of what? Of that black people should be treated poorly because they're angry and evil? Of that there is apparently such a thing as "white privilege" (as if white people are really somehow better than black, brown, yellow and what-have-you people)?

Who benefits from learning any of that? Black children and teenagers? White children and teenagers? Blacks will find out that they're apparently evil and supposed to be angry, so they act angry, and whites find out that they're supposed to act as if they're a higher society than people not of their skin color for some convoluted selfish reason. I'm failing to see a benefit.

Grendel  ·  3539 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Considering the fact that white and male privilege is considered a serious concept by many, including here on Hubski, I'd say that my action was completely justified. I'll gladly stop mocking their stupid ideas when their stupidity has ceased to be a matter of dispute.

user-inactivated  ·  3539 days ago  ·  link  ·  

By mocking the ideas, aren't you prolonging their existence, thus choosing to not let them cease?

Grendel  ·  3539 days ago  ·  link  ·  

If I didn't mock them, it would be as if I approved of them. If everyone with a little bit of common sense chooses to stay silent, insanity becomes the new normal.

user-inactivated  ·  3538 days ago  ·  link  ·  

So you agree that what you do is more destructive than it is constructive or of positive influence, do I read it correctly?

Grendel  ·  3538 days ago  ·  link  ·  

That's not what I was trying to say, but I do think that there are cases where "not saying anything unless you have something nice to say" is actually detrimental to the public discourse, and that there's a time and place for both constructive and destructive input.

user-inactivated  ·  3538 days ago  ·  link  ·  

If this is the case, I must suggest you consider the dangers of blabbing. Destructive input is only justified when there was actually an input. Empty mockery is not an input.

Grendel  ·  3538 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Obviously I don't expect you to have read everything that I've ever written, but trust me, there's been plenty of input. This mockery is not unjustified.

user-inactivated  ·  3538 days ago  ·  link  ·  

If you're so certain in being correct and in right and unwilling to listen to any other point of view, I don't suppose there's anything else I can say for or against.

caeli  ·  3539 days ago  ·  link  ·  

hahahaha if I rolled my eyes any harder I would injure myself

shiranaihito  ·  3539 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I think he's trying to communicate that "white privilege" and "the patriarchy" are largely made-up problems.

He alluded to a double standard too. When a (white) guy was getting beaten up by (black) girls, security guards didn't give a damn.

But we all know that if a bunch of white guys were beating up a black girl, the security guards would have intervened, the guys would get sentenced and there would be riots on the streets (with black people doing their typical let's-vandalize-and-loot-innocent-businesses thing).