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comment by tla
tla  ·  3436 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: No, It’s Not Your Opinion. You’re Just Wrong

Opinions can conflict with fact. Opinions can be undesirable. Opinions can be immoral. Opinions can be dishonest.

All these things make the opinions wrong.

But nothing can stop them being opinions.





thewoodenaisle  ·  3436 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Hmmm, it depends on your definition of "wrong." Undesirable, immoral, dishonest opinions wouldn't be wrong in the sense of being factually incorrect but wrong in the sense of being morally objectable. I suppose I could've rephrased my sentence as "opinions can't be factually incorrect, but opinions can be shitty," but it becomes a stupid trite statement that's only slightly better than "opinions can't be facts, but some opinions can be bad opinions." But then again, I don't think the fact/opinion dichotomy accurately represents how statements can be categorized.

tla  ·  3436 days ago  ·  link  ·  

A statement that you hold an opinion can't be factually incorrect unless you lie about your opinion. The opinion cannot be fact. Opinions can be supported by fact, but are not by default.

Kafke  ·  3436 days ago  ·  link  ·  

    Opinions can conflict with fact.

Not really. Opinions describe completely separate things than facts.

    Opinions can be undesirable.

Every opinion is undesirable to someone. That's what makes them opinions.

    Opinions can be immoral.

Morality itself is an opinion. What is moral to one is immoral to another. That's an opinion.

    Opinions can be dishonest.

No. You can be dishonest about what your opinion is. But opinions cannot be dishonest.

    All these things make the opinions wrong.

Opinions cannot be objectively wrong. They aren't objective statements.

user-inactivated  ·  3436 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I don't believe rightness applies to opinions. I agree with you on that they can be sickly formed, but it doesn't make them incorrect in any way, because they're a piece of subjective perception of reality, just like a fact is a piece of objective perception of reality. Here, let me do a run for it so you'd understand what I mean:

    Opinions can conflict with fact.

"I believe the Earth is spherical rather than flat".

    Opinions can be undesirable.

"I believe people ought to be treated equally, no matter the color of skin" to a racist's face.

    Opinions can be immoral.

Opinions are amoral, intent can be immoral. Believing in solving overpopulation through killing off people bears no morality on its own, but the intent behind it is immoral. This, of course, raises the question of whether opinions and intents behind them are separate.

    Opinions can be dishonest.

Expressions (words, phrases, sentences) can be dishonest; opinions in themselves bear no property of honesty or lack thereof. Again, a question is raised - whether expressing opinions is separate from expressing any other personal thought - but that's beyond my point.

empty  ·  3435 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Opinions can be moral. Someone who holds racist opinions will act immorally towards those groups they are racist against. The opinion itself is the source of the behavior, and so long as someone holds a racist opinion, they will act in an immoral (racist) manner. The opinion is therefore also immoral; it's not moral to continue to hold an opinion which influences your actions towards immorality.

user-inactivated  ·  3435 days ago  ·  link  ·  

You're right. I was thinking of expression of those opinions, which are, in fact, amoral.