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comment by Devac
Devac  ·  3083 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: I'm switching back to Mint!

You are not the only one. I have switched from Ubuntu 15.10 to Mint on my main computer soon after I've heard that Canonical will not support AMD hardware (I need OpenCL capability). But I have installed Ubuntu 16.04 on my older laptop and had unprecedented amount of crashes, X fucking off and shutting down, and a whole lot of other problems. I probably got more problems in a week than for the previous six months on a version that was supposed to be this buggy and unstable release-candidate-like step.

Now I have Debian installed on the other laptop instead of Ubuntu. Unsurprisingly, it woks fine.

As someone who was having an Ubuntu system on at least one computer for past six years or so: I never had such a poor experience with LTS or even unstable versions.





user-inactivated  ·  3083 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I am so glad this isn't just me then. I honestly don't even know what I did. Ubuntu seemed like a decent shot because while it's new to me it's popular enough and obviously GoG supports it. I haven't used anything Debian based since CrunchBang went under and since I can always use my wife's windows box for gaming if needed, I'm half tempted to give Debian a shot.

Devac  ·  3083 days ago  ·  link  ·  

mk, you might like to read it as well.

Debian is really good, I do recommend giving it at least a try sometime. But bare in mind that because it focuses on stability you might end up having problems with installing some of the programs due to version requirements. If you have nVidia hardware instead of AMD you are better covered anyway (better support in general in my experience and drivers from nVidia don't leave you with impression that Linux is on the furthest backburner possible), but you might end up being frustrated that program N requires (for example) xorg 6.5.5 but even in Debian SID (most unstable and with newest software) they only recently added 6.3.4. Numbers made-up for purpose of example.

Overall, Mint is much less fussy for people who don't want to dwell too much in command line but Debian is by no means a bad system. However, since it's a basis for *buntu and Mint and many other distributions you have to be aware that there are some extra steps to do in order to improve some functionality or use fairly recent software.

mk  ·  3083 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Yeah, you just sold me on Mint. ;)

Devac  ·  3083 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Who would have guessed? ;)

Just to add one thing: Debian has its place, when setting up a server stability should be fairly high on the priorities list (this is freaking weird thing to say to Hubski admin :D). Same thing with systems like CentOS or RedHat Linux. Sure, you can use them on your desktop/personal laptop and don't mind staying within delivered software. But if you just must get something to work that requires new stuff, it can get painful.

The computational grid for students at my university actually runs Debian (and the one for researchers is either CentOS or RedHat) and according to the admin it never had any problems once the setup was completed. And as you can probably guess, majority of the first year is close to monkeys who try to run code that due to intended or unintended error can have something along the lines of:

  const unsigned N_PARTICLES = 10000000U;

double * velocity = (double*)malloc(N_PARTICLES << sizeof(double));

:D. Chance of having something like that on your personal machine are significantly less than when you have 300 people with ssh access and too much free time on their hands ;).

johnnyFive  ·  3083 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Nope, not just you. I've tried Ubuntu a few times, but it's consistently been unstable (once requiring a complete wipe and reinstall when upgrading to a new version failed). Plus I hate Unity. Plus I don't like that they made your searched of your computer default to searching Amazon too. Bleh.

I'll second what Devac said and recommend Debian. I installed it on Monday, and have been super happy with it. Am typing this post from there, in fact. Truth be told, I don't really like having to go back to using my Windows 7 desktop. Have had zero problems with drivers or dependencies so far, although haven't tried to do much gaming. I did install Steam, which worked fine once I figured out how to add a 32-bit environment to aptitude. But smuxi and irssi for IRC (depending on whether I need notifications or not) and Firefox handles 99% of my use cases. Side note: I'm on IRC right now, and will be for the next couple of hours if you have additional questions.

Devac  ·  3083 days ago  ·  link  ·  

    Nope, not just you. I've tried Ubuntu a few times, but it's consistently been unstable (once requiring a complete wipe and reinstall when upgrading to a new version failed).

To be fair, Ubuntu (or to be precise, Xubuntu in my default case) was doing the job for me up until 15.10. There is also a rather comprehensive Wiki that solves a lot of the performance problems with a tutorial that can be done once (and takes about 10-15 minutes to complete). Some of that also applies to Debian. It just is not the default set of settings for a reason that I can't fathom.

In the end, all distributions have some problems. In terms of the Debian-derived ones:

- Canonical did some shitty stuff with Ubuntu (Amazon, forcing Unity, recent and mentioned above 'fuck you' to people with AMD hardware) and only recently made it inactive by default (but to my knowledge it is still within Unity)

- Mint ISO repositories got hacked (more info here) so for sake of security you might want to wait for a day or two after downloading ISO from site. Bit shit if you want to install it right after download.

- Bunsenlabs (successor of CrunchBang Linux) left me with an impression of being just Debian with preconfigured OpenBox window manager. Following 'review' comes with a caveat that I have used Bunsenlabs for less than a month to see what's the hubbub about. It carries a version problem from the opposite end of Debian normal repositories. Instead of being on the safe and stable side it goes the Arch way and uses some of the cutting-edge/experimental versions. It's not impossible to work and have a fairly stable system out of it, but when something crashes you might get boned and a lot of the Debian/Ubuntu support will be outdated for you. As was in my case when I have plugged my USB camera into it and system went full retard on me.

user-inactivated  ·  3082 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I didn't know Mint got hacked. That's scary. I'm almost 100% positive I was running a clean version, but still, damn. That really is worrying.

It's sad to hear you're not liking BunsenLabs much. CrunchBang was my first Linux rodeo, filled with curse words and Google searches galore. Maybe I really will just look into straight Debian this time.

Devac  ·  3082 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Don't worry, the problem was found out at the very same day, properly disclosed and dealt with in a professional manner. Truth be told the advice I gave for dealing with downloaded Mint ISOs should be extended for every single distribution out there. It's uncommon, but we live in a world where anyone can spot security problems (hell, I have one imo serious found on Hubski itself, and I am by no means an expert when it comes to IT. It was solved almost instantly, thanks to mk's awesomeness and quick response.) and it can be hard to resist temptation to exploit them. Seeing how Mint team dealt with the problem, I would count it as a mixed blessing.

On one hand, they got hacked due to lax wordpress configuration. On another hand, looking at their response they probably hardened their servers and will keep a much closer attention to security measures. That could turn out to be a major plus for them in the long run. Possible bias as a Mint user notwithstanding ;).

    It's sad to hear you're not liking BunsenLabs much.

I would not say that I don't like it, but it did not leave me 'wowed' afterwards. It was advertised to me as mix of the best things that both Debian and Arch have to offer (and I do like both of the philosophies behind them)… and basically got a Debian with OpenBox and one driver problem. It was by no means bad, but suffered from severe case of overhype.

I would compare it to one place with Chinese food close to my dorm. Everyone was telling me that the food is more than filling and so tasty that you should watch out for suddenly jizzing in your pants ;). After giving it a go I got a solid and fulfilling meal, but by no means best I ever had when it comes to Chinese. Different strokes etc.