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comment by veen
veen  ·  2832 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: Hubski, what app do you use to write?

Interesting, I hadn't thought of breaking it up like that. What I do wonder is how you handle the back-and-forth that inevitably occurs, e.g. when you're writing and your outline changes because of it. Maybe it's my writing style but I often rearrange stuff.

I totally agree about being able to focus. I did all my writing for The Correspondent in Google Docs. Plain text really helped me focus on the text and nothing else. Markdown has also been on my radar, do you use that as syntax for iaWriter? I've also been considering using InDesign for the layout, which I have learned the bare basics of this year. Supposedly one can link .md files to ID...





goobster  ·  2832 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Well, technically, if you are going back and forth between your outline and your first draft, then you haven't outlined it properly, or you have started writing too soon. You need to re-think the purpose and content of your outline.

GoogleDocs was my second-best writing environment, and I loved it when I worked at a tech-savvy company that had standardized on the full GoogleApps suite. But Google's apps fall down as soon as you need to use them with ANYTHING else.

    Markdown has also been on my radar, do you use that as syntax for iaWriter?

I find any sort of markdown notation a distraction. It is, once again, confusing CONTENT with LAYOUT. Stick with writing excellent content, and then worry about the layout later. That way you will ensure that your content is good, before you dive into the distraction and bottomless pit of layout.

... which brings me to ...

InDesign.

It really is amazing. Brilliant app. But it is a bottomless black hole pit of despair unless you get professional training on it. I use it pretty much weekly, and I massively destroy things with ID pretty much weekly.

At this point, if I can get a page to look right in ID, then I output it to PDF.

Then I assemble the individual PDF pages in Apple's "Preview" app, into a full, multi-page PDF, and print it out.

Sometimes I hand-type page numbers into Preview, as well. (shrug)

Writing is religion. I know kb is going to have a lot to say on the topic too, and I look forward to reading his excoriation of my technique! :-)

user-inactivated  ·  2831 days ago  ·  link  ·  

    I find any sort of markdown notation a distraction. It is, once again, confusing CONTENT with LAYOUT.

If we're talking about the same Markdown, I find your assertion of its nature to be false. Markdown and its derivatives serve to enhance your content, not add new features to it. Content itself is important, but being able mark the most important ideas as well as present data that is otherwise unreadable - say, tables - is no less so; sometimes it even is your content.

kleinbl00  ·  2832 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Honestly? You have nothing but my sympathy. If I were forced into a workflow where I had to take words and run them through a four-step workflow that involved hand-typing shit into Preview after getting Word to play nicey-nicey with my images, I'd have a heart-to-heart with my employer about the amount of effort being wasted on layout and how they could probably hire a community college intern just to prettify the writing and still come out ahead.

I have never been forced into a corner where people who need InDesign-level tweakatude don't have a couple InDesign galley slaves for that specific purpose.

goobster  ·  2830 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Yeah. We have had that talk, and the InDesign/Writer grunt employee for me is on the plan... but then we got purchased by a big company, and are doing the "right-sizing transition" thing, as the new company figures out where to throw money at us for the biggest wins.

I expect that by this time next year, most of my current work will be an assembly process for a recent-graduate level InDesign geek with a penchant for writing. I will write the "interesting" bits and focus on my Competitive Intel research and analysis, and manage the production of sales proposals and case studies.

InDesign is cool... but I used PageMaker and Quark and Illustrator for far too many years to fit another iteration of those design tools into my whisky-addled brain!

veen  ·  2832 days ago  ·  link  ·  

    Well, technically, if you are going back and forth between your outline and your first draft, then you haven't outlined it properly, or you have started writing too soon. You need to re-think the purpose and content of your outline.

Outlines serve two purposes: a way of formatting my arguments (not unlike in philosophy with premises P1, P2, P3 leading to conclusion C, etc) and as a jumping-off point. But there's a thousand ways to write a certain statement, tell a part of my story or explain a concept. I usually figure those out during the writing process and can't imagine knowing that beforehand. It's like guessing where to put your furniture when you haven't built a house yet - the details matter, but they are dependent on the larger structure that it's very hard to get right so early on. Plus, I often think of new arguments or points of view during my writing, necessitating restructuring or rewriting of parts. Do you not have those issues, or are they not significant for you?

    But it is a bottomless black hole pit of despair unless you get professional training on it.

InDesign so far has been me attempting to cobble together a few booklets. If I embed all the assets, I don't break everything. Its logic is kinda weird and I don't know whether that's because of my low skill level, because I confuse concepts with Illustrator and Photoshop, because it's just weird or all of the above.

goobster  ·  2830 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I agree with everything you said... ten years ago.

Nowadays, writing is a system for me. It is a woodworkers shop. The logs come in over here, they get shaped into planks, the planks get honed here, individual pieces get made here, the pieces get fit together over there, and at the end, the piece is sanded and finished at that last table near the door.

When I moved from a "creative" writing mindset to a "production-writing" mindset, I realized that there is no "magic" in writing. You don't need candles burning, and the lighting just so, and quiet, and all that. Now, I align the tools and the steps, and the writing happens.

I think I have reached a state like Stephen King talks about in "On Writing" where you get all the mechanical bits lined up, and then you let the creativity flow via those tools. The "system" is in place to produce great work... you just insert the creativity.

This is why I don't return to my outlines. Because when I write my outline I am thinking about how I am going to consume that outline at the next step. So when I get to the next step, I consume the outline, and out comes the first draft. When I get to the second draft, I consume the first draft, and output the second draft. It's a linear process for me.

And it works for me. (Clearly doesn't work for KB, though!)