Let me say it outright then. In comparison to their peers in the media, IE, television, I do not see strong writing skills from the writers of the sci-fi episodes I have seen. I see flaws in pacing, logic, and execution. The fact that those issues come up a lot less in other genres in the same medium means that, comparatively speaking, television sci-fi writers are weaker. But only television sci-fi writers in this instance. Not novel writers. Not movie writers. Not comic book or short story writers. Only sci-fi writers. I get the sense it's because they have a hard time finding ways to adapting their stories to the medium. Just because I don't know how to qualify or quantify it in an intellectual manner, it does not mean that assumption of mine is wrong. It just means I lack the skills to accurately convey what I'm experiencing. I can suspend disbelief, I'm willing to suspend disbelief, but I need good writing and something in the execution to make the suspension of disbelief worth while. If it's not there, I feel like I'm being cheated because I don't think I'm being respected by the writers. There's a difference between suspending disbelief, enjoying something that's somewhat silly for the sake of its charm, and being expected to enjoy a sub-par product. Why are you being harsh? Because we're in disagreement? How many conversations have we had on Hubski over the years? Hundreds. How many times have you ever seen me try to play a game of rhetoric, misdirection, or some other kind of debate "gotcha?" Never. I come to these conversations always honest and as open as possible, even when we're in disagreement. Knowing that, if I say "That's not why I didn't like this episode" what I am saying is literally "That's not why I didn't like this episode." I am not trying to trick you. I'm not trying to pull a bait and switch. I am having a conversation about an episode of a television program that I thought was frustratingly sub-par. Let's be fair here. I'm trying to have a conversation where at the end of the day, I express my views, maybe learn something, and it all takes place on the internet. There is nothing for me to win or lose, so there's no reason for me to be conniving about what I'm trying to say. Well, I think in regards to Star Wars, both he and I knew he was talking about the original core six films. We both know that extended universes add a lot. By Return of the Jedi, there already was some pretty big back tracking and side explaining in regards to Darth Vader being Luke's father, Leiah being his sister, etc. Regardless as to the mechanisms that lead to it, they're still there. Could he have used better examples? Probably. Does he still have a point in his explanation? I think so.You devote twelve paragraphs to arguing that sci fi writers are incompetent. You use a lot of words because you know you don't really have the standing to do so and you hope that rhetorically, you can bury the lede on that one but fundamentally, you are arguing that science fiction writers don't know how to write. Then you hide behind
More evidence of the assertion that you're not willing to extend suspension of disbelief to science fiction... especially as you started down this road by singing the praises of Godzilla movies.
It made you uncomfortable enough to write a thousand-word rant on how much you hated it. And then try to justify that rant with another 800-word rant about how sci fi writers suck.
BTW, your friend is mistaken.
I'm being harsh because you didn't come into this saying "I don't get why I don't like science fiction, somebody help me out here" you came into this saying "Star Trek sucks, fight me." You literally held DS9 to be worse than Brooklyn 99. And your justification is "the writing sucks and the writers suck." You're not wrong. The bar is generally lower for science fiction. Much like a certain segment of the population likes music better if you replace "baby" with "jesus", as Cartman would say, there's a segment of the audience that just wants their tropes and doesn't care about the rest. ‘Needs more NaCl-based SupaFlav flavour enhancer,’ he muttered to himself. The meal had been prepared to his exacting standards by the ship’s Cyber Hospitality Electro-Famulus, but there was always room for improvements to the AI’s food preparation algorithms. He made a subconscious neural-jack-formatted mental note to update the C.H.E.F. unit’s programming. Just then, the A.A.A. (Audio Alert Alarm) began emitting the high-pitched ringing noise known as “spidiffling.” ‘Zakradav grakhl!’ swore the Colonel. But at the same time, the arena of science fiction exists to explore concepts in ways that conventional literature or television cannot. Given an hour in which everything about the world is known (Brooklyn 99) or an hour in which a new concept must be explained, explored and then resolved (DS9), much less of the hour can be devoted to the decorum you so crave. You see this as bad writing. I suggest you go watch Philadelphia again, in which 70% of the film is given over to "Here is your AIDS F.A.Q." Two Oscars, five nominations. The biggest beef the intelligentsia had with Philadelphia? It spent way too long on AIDS 101. Yet for Middle America it was the movie that made that whole Magic Johnson thing make sense. I don't think you're being duplicitous. I think you're blind to an aspect of your personality, namely that some things just straight-up make you uncomfortable. And that's fine. At the end of the day most people would agree that science fiction is sub-par and not worth their time. There's a reason 99% of it these days is fuckin' superhero dreck. But most people wouldn't accuse science fiction of being crap but Kaiju films of being great. That's all you.Lifting his vibro-fork to his mouth, Colonel Daringman watched the exquisite spectacle of planet-rise through the plexi-viewport. He took a bite of his lightly marinated nutribeef simsteak.
I mean, I kind of want to avoid further arguing, but yeah. I really feel that. I could have sworn I talked about that, but looking back at my ranting, I must have left that out. So I'll say I completely acknowledge that westerns and sitcoms and dramas and the like have the luxury of not being bogged down by world building. They have both a visual as well as a literal vocabulary that we're all familiar with so the ball can get rolling much quicker. That said, maybe part of the flaw in sci-fi writing is that the writers are a bit too worried about world building sometimes? I mean, how hard is it to say "It's a fucking spaceship with anti-matter engines. We're not going to take the time to explain it because that's what it is and fucking deal with it so we can get on to addressing whether or not it's morally acceptable to tell this stone age civilization that gladiatorial combat is immoral." I mean, at this point, I'm beating a dead horse but I'm honestly not concerned about space ships. I'm concerned about characters being compelling and realistic. Dude. Maybe it's because DS9 is literally brand new to me, but I would easily watch it, frustrations and all, over the majority of the shit being pushed by Marvel and DC right now. Shit, it's getting to the point where I think I'm gonna stop keeping track of The Valiant Universe. I don't know if you're actively reading anything right now, I'm assuming you're not, but let me tell you, it's baaad. That's all you. I know what tickles my imagination. :)You literally held DS9 to be worse than Brooklyn 99. And your justification is "the writing sucks and the writers suck."
Given an hour in which everything about the world is known (Brooklyn 99) or an hour in which a new concept must be explained, explored and then resolved (DS9), much less of the hour can be devoted to the decorum you so crave.
There's a reason 99% of it these days is fuckin' superhero dreck.
But most people wouldn't accuse science fiction of being crap but Kaiju films of being great.
So long as we're clear that we're talking about your imagination, not an objective assessment of science fiction as a genre, we're all good. You have to worry about the world-building. You need to build enough of a universe where aliens have been bred to relish their role as prey for a hunting species for the audience to accept it and confront the implications thereof. You? You get wrapped around the axle on O'Brien the military man who Would Never Do That (perhaps that's part of the world they're building...). You also come into this with a hell of a detriment: nobody watched DS9 without having been sheep-dipped in two series of Star Trek before hand. There is literally no one on the planet except you who said "you know what? I think I'll ignore the two series that the nerds actually like and focus on the one in the universe that people think is ehh at best before moving on to Voyager, the series most people hate so I can talk about how much sci fi sucks." There are great swaths of TNG that suck. There are many episodes of the original Star Trek that fans would rather forget. But DS9 will always be "another series in the Star Trek Universe" that completists watch and nobody else cares about. If you really wanna get your dork on, go sit through The Animated Series and try and wrap canon around that. The Federation vs. Kzin. "Any script in a storm."
Complaints about those two episodes aside, I don't think I'm struggling too much with DS9 just because I've learned from comics to just take shit as it's thrown at you. The major reason I'm watching it is because I've been told it's gonna explore themes that interest me as an individual (war and religion apparently, from what I can gather). I have no intention of watching Voyager or Enterprise because if they're series that even the fans of the universe don't like, then there is no way, I as a non-fan, can expect to appreciate them. That said, one of my work friends said, in terms of OG and Next Gen, that if you just watch random episodes at random times, with no schedule commitment, and not binge watch them, they're much easier to appreciate. What are your thoughts on that? Oh. Wow. A Star Trek cartoon. What is the consensus on that? I have to know. I can't imagine I'd enjoy it. As for watching the rest of the series of DS9, I promise to try my best to be more malleable and not let my complaints draw me out of the fun. If you really wanna get your dork on, go sit through The Animated Series and try and wrap canon around that.