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comment by b_b
b_b  ·  293 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: The New "Over the Top" Secret Plan on How Fascists Could Win in 2024

You're arguing against a strawman. Nowhere did I say that the Netanyahu government is correct in their prosecution of the war. I said it's not a genocide, because it's aims aren't genocidal, they're statecraft. Pointing out how bad conditions are there isn't a counterargument.





am_Unition  ·  293 days ago  ·  link  ·  

    it's aims aren't genocidal, they're statecraft

I don't think that's really true, though. Sometimes the framing of things in terms of statecraft is abandoned entirely:

    This week alone, a parliamentarian from Netanyahu’s Likud party went on television and said it was clear to most Israelis that “all the Gazans need to be destroyed.” Then, Israel’s ambassador in Britain told local radio that there was no other solution for her country than to level “every school, every mosque, every second house” in Gaza to degrade Hamas’s military infrastructure.

There are many other statements from top government officials in this vein. The hatred runs deeeeeeeeeep. Goes both ways, of course, but this is incredibly asymmetric warfare, if it's warfare at all.

b_b  ·  293 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Right, but think about the ambassador's words for a minute. Early in the war there was a lot of handwringing about Israeli soldiers shooting up a hospital. The fact is, when you suspect that there's a weapons cache inside a hospital, you try to enter it. When people start shooting at you from inside, then you shoot your way in. The trouble is that Hamas freely admits to using hospitals, schools and mosques as places to shield fighters and materiel. That's the context around what she's saying there. It's shitty, but you still have to leap a giant chasm to get from there to genocide (there's a good reason that Arabs can be doctors, lawyers and cabinet ministers in Israel, but Jews (not Israelis) aren't even allowed to be tourists inside many Muslim countries). From October 7 onward, Hamas could have saved every single Gazan civilian by offering an unconditional surrender. They haven't and they won't. That's on them.

user-inactivated  ·  293 days ago  ·  link  ·  

This is not to defend what Hamas did on Oct 7.

But Ukraine could also stop all the killings with unconditional surrender. Israel wants complete military domination and will not accept any Palestinian state.

b_b  ·  293 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Thank you for definitively reminding me why I avoid such debates on the internet. I'll stop now.

user-inactivated  ·  293 days ago  ·  link  ·  

nah, you're right though. this sucks.

i'm sorry for hubski being nothing but politics, i take the blame for a lot of that. it's not helpful. it's not fun.

i like this place and the people a lot, I don't wanna be the one making it worse. i have a hard time not engaging and its clearly not making things better or anyone including myself happy

see you in a while hopefully. can't wait to catch up on the CNC machine progress & the watch drama, that's been my favorite part & it's getting drowned out

am_Unition  ·  293 days ago  ·  link  ·  

It'd be nice if substantive debates were happening anywhere else. The ICJ and UN are about it.