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comment by mk
mk  ·  4803 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: Elizabeth Warren Quote about the Social Contract Implied in Success
Well, inherent in what Warren is saying is this idea about the social contract - except it's not a contract. It's a system you're born into, which is dictated to you, and which you can't opt out of. It's really a bastardization of the term "contract."

It seems to be any organization, or even agreed lack of organization could fall under this.

That said, a flat tax would possibly be okay (if not more intrusive), but what would really work is to abolish the income tax and replace it with a national sales tax.

Is there any example of a country that has done this? I personally lean towards a progressive income tax, and that is it. No write-offs, no tax breaks. Just a tax on all income that begins at 0% at the poverty-line, and climbs at the rate of a single order exponential.

Government is there because we put it there. However, complexity can lead to autonomous government power through obfuscation. I think libertarian-minded folk would probably find real advances if they attacked government complexity in lieu of government reach. I say this, because ultimately, I think that which makes our government not our own, is primarily rooted in bureaucracy.

Personally, I feel we should go back to a volunteer government and no income tax.

The US started the income tax in 1812. What would suggest that the first 36 years of US history can be effectively and advantageously applied now? Are there any modern examples?

I do think that a limited number of terms in the House and Senate might reduce corruption, however. Also, I don't think that anyone but a citizen should be able to donate to a campaign, and donations can only be made personally, and directly. Campaign funding is elective power. If our government is to serve the citizens, the citizens must control elective power.





artifex  ·  4803 days ago  ·  link  ·  
It seems to be any organization, or even agreed lack of organization could fall under this.

How so?

Is there any example of a country that has done this? I

Not sure, and I can't look it up at the moment.

Government is there because we put it there.

Well, at least I was born into it.

*The US started the income tax in 1812.

Not sure where you're getting this date from. 1913 is the date. Which would mean we've had no income tax longer than we've had income tax.

mk  ·  4803 days ago  ·  link  ·  
How so?

I just meant that you are born into any social situation without choice, whether it is a highly structured government, or an agreed lack of government.

Not sure where you're getting this date from. 1913 is the date. Which would mean we've had no income tax longer than we've had income tax.

Sorry, I was wrong. This first time a Federal income tax was proposed was during the war of 1812, but it wasn't enacted. The first time it was levied was in 1861 during the Civil War. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revenue_Act_of_1861 (signed by the first Republican President, no less!) it expired in 1873. Another income tax was introduced in 1864, but was struck down by the Supreme Court the next year. Then yes, it returned again in 1913.

artifex  ·  4803 days ago  ·  link  ·  
Well, I think you get my point then. People like senators and congressmen, and even the president, all served on a volunteer basis. Sure, there are some issues with that (would only rich, self-sufficient people become representatives? [but then again, isn't that what we have right now?]). Save for times of war (which, from a liberty-minded perspective, Lincoln was a monster), Americans largely did not know what an income tax was.

But given that we're a nation that's in perpetual war (in order to maintain a global empire), I wonder how feasible getting rid of the income tax would be.