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comment by mk
mk  ·  4393 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: What Is Consciousness? Make Up Your Own Mind!

I don't see something that I wholly agree with there. Emergent Dualism is probably the closest thing to my own best guess. Personally, I can't imagine any kind of decision making without consciousness. Yes, that does include computers, ants, etc.

I see consciousness as a measure of something that exists on a gradient, and not as a discrete phenomenon. There are less complex consciousnesses than ours, and I would be surprised if there weren't more complex ones. As for our own experience of our won consciousness, IMO that is internal modeling.





theadvancedapes  ·  4393 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Emergent Dualism appeals to me as well. Part of me thinks Quantum Consciousness could be right as well. We don't know enough about the quantum world to rule it out, and I think we won't create "spiritual machines" until we start creating computer models of the brain at the quantum level.

StephenBuckley  ·  4393 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I always look at the quantum argument with some bafflement. We don't understand a lot of things that I don't theorize to be in the brain. We don't understand Quasars, but I wouldn't bet that they're intimately tied to the brain's functionality! It's different, but not much different.

MattholomewCup  ·  4392 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I'm skeptical of the use of the word "quantum" in front of anything to explain any phenomenon we don't fully understand yet. Maybe it's Deepak Chopra's fault but whenever someone refers to the idea of quantum consciousness or anything of that nature it makes me want to ask them, exactly what does the Q-word add to your understanding?

StephenBuckley  ·  4392 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Soopr Science Consciousness.

theadvancedapes  ·  4393 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I was just trying to make the point that if AI do become conscious, it will likely be with quantum computing. Therefore, it is possible that there is some quantum effect in our brains that we can't currently detect. I'm not saying it is the most convincing hypothesis, but we can't rule it out.

StephenBuckley  ·  4393 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I haven't seen any compelling evidence that quantum computing will move AI along more than any other field. What makes you think that?

theadvancedapes  ·  4393 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Many futurists estimate that AI will reach and surpass human levels between 2025-2035. All computing will be quantum at this time period if current trends hold. Therefore, I would hypothesize that something a the quantum scale of computing could cause consciousness. However, it is also possible that AI never becomes conscious, or it may be possible that consciousness is an emergent property of complexity. I don't think anyone has the definitive answer at the moment.

StephenBuckley  ·  4393 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Well, a few things. First of all the AI community's not great at these estimations (third paragraph down). Secondly, those predictions aren't founded primarily on the idea of quantum computing (which will change everything, obviously) but on the basis of hitting or coming close to the Singularity. This is based on making a machine (or software) which can create a better machine (or software). Definitely no one has a definitive answer about what makes consciousness, and similarly, no one has a definitive goal for AI. Because no one knows what they're aiming at, I tend to be pretty skeptical about predictions of how/when they're going to get there.

And even still, equating quantum computing and the brain might be a huge mistake- there is definitely no evidence that our brains use quantum computing.

b_b  ·  4393 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Noooooo!!! I hate dualism (or "emergent dualism", which is code for "regular dualism"). It will be the subject of a blog post quite soon. Its something I feel strongly about.

mk  ·  4393 days ago  ·  link  ·  

That's my problem with it. I don't think there is a critical point at which 'dualism' is reached.

I cannot imagine a choice made without action without a degree of consciousness. Consciousness can be mundane, less mundane, or quite complex, but it's all cosciousness.

IiB said I am an Emergent Dualist Behavioralist, which sounds ridiculous to me.

Looking forward to that post, btw.

theadvancedapes  ·  4393 days ago  ·  link  ·  

That's hilarious. Should make for a good discussion on sunday.

b_b  ·  4393 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I'll bring my A game. Study up!