a thoughtful web.
Good ideas and conversation. No ads, no tracking.   Login or Take a Tour!
comment by b_b
b_b  ·  4337 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: Mind-blowing literature?

I think I'm drawn to WWI, because of the aristocratic bullshit. It was basically a pointless war fought for the explicit purpose of family jealousy. Millions of people were sacrificed so that Wilhelm, Nicholas and George could battle for which one grandma would have loved the most (actually I don't think George V was a first cousin but you get where I'm going). And in the end it solved nothing but to set the stage for the biggest calamity in human history.

I like Guns of August because it is a glimpse into the war's beginning and it is what turned me on to WWI. But to me the best book I've read on the political situation leading up to the war is Europe's Last Summer. Very clear and thorough while still a good read.





kleinbl00  ·  4337 days ago  ·  link  ·  

    I think I'm drawn to WWI, because of the aristocratic bullshit.

And I think that's what repels me. Don't get me wrong - we've cranked through four seasons of Upstairs Downstairs and two of Downton Abbey but there's this "stiff upper lip boys don't breathe the phosgene" about "The Great War" that makes me wonder why Socialism didn't sweep all of it, rather than just Russia.

b_b  ·  4337 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I'm telling you, you have to read Pipes' The Russian Revolution. I know I've plugged it to you in the past, but its too fascinating to ignore. He argues that the lack of democracy in Russia is ultimately what led to their brand of communism, that Bolshevism would likely have been avoided had Nicholas allowed a constitutional monarchy (which is all the people ever demanded in the 1905 revolution, and was promised by ultimately reneged on). The fact that the citizens could vote in the other great powers gave them ownership of their governments and fueled the soldiers' will to fight. Whereas in Russia, men fought because they were sent to Siberia if they didn't. They laid down their arms en masse at the first opportunity in 1917, but even before that, despite their casualty rate being equitable to the other powers, they had a capture rate many times higher, owing to their indifference toward the state. Lenin didn't want his coup to be a Russian takeover; wanted to be a total European and eventually a world workers' revolution. But he found out that to most people, country and neighbors are more important than ideology. That is why socialism was restricted to Russia and whomever else they could force into it.

kleinbl00  ·  4337 days ago  ·  link  ·  

On your recommendation I started his Communism: A History. Gotta tell ya - it reads a lot like a history of MoveOn.org as written by BIll O'Reilly... Pipes is mentioned in The Dead Hand as one of the ideologues who helped sustain the cold war an extra ten years.

He pretty much starts off with the basis that Communism in all forms is stupid and will never ever work, and then proceeds to highlight things about Marxism/Leninism that are even stupider. Which is fine - the dude knows a hell of a lot more political philosophy than I ever will and Reagan never asked me to Tiger-Team CIA intelligence estimates. But it's far more of a polemic than an analysis.

b_b  ·  4337 days ago  ·  link  ·  

There is no doubt that he is writing from a very distinct point of view (basically a staunch Neoliberal one), and he doesn't try to hide this fact. But that doesn't necessarily mean that he is incorrect on his version of history. After all communism hasn't worked anywhere its been tried. I suppose the difficulty for the reader lay in separating fact from conjecture from opinion.

One has to also remember how ravaged his native homeland, Poland, was by the Communists. This plus the fact that stated the goal of the Bolsheviks was for a world government might make it difficult to have a lot of sympathy for their worldview. I think your comment in another thread yesterday that started "Dear Person Born in 1992" stated what I am trying to say quite well. Namely, that the world was minutes from MAD for a half century, and we therefore have to try to read everything from that time period in that light. Even if Pipes was responsible for the CW dragging on longer than it had to, he probably did it out of genuine love of the West and fear of the Soviets.

kleinbl00  ·  4337 days ago  ·  link  ·  

    Even if Pipes was responsible for the CW dragging on longer than it had to, he probably did it out of genuine love of the West and fear of the Soviets.

No doubt. Remember - I grew up in Los Alamos, NM. The W88 was designed by my peeps. Thing is, there's a lot more information available now than there was in 1984 and far more perspectives are available... yet Pipes' writing illustrates pretty clearly that he figured it all out back in the '70s and has been fitting all available information into his worldview ever since, rather than the other way 'round.

I don't question his motives. I don't question his scholarship. I simply observe that his perspective is perhaps too archaic for my tastes, having grown up with the Soviets front'n'center and having adapted to a world in which they are not now, and never have been, the "Evil Empire."