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comment by humanodon
humanodon  ·  4178 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: Elizabeth Gunnison Dunn: Why tipping should be outlawed

That's understandable. If there were universal healthcare then I could see people banding together to do something about it, but the way things are now in the service industry, I just don't see change coming from the bottom.





Kaius  ·  4178 days ago  ·  link  ·  

You might help me out here, How does universal healthcare figure into it? In overly simplistic terms wouldn't the price of a beer still be roughly the same if it included the service charge in the price? So to the consumer there is little change, the server gets the same wages, the employer still makes the same as he always did, he just has to pay an hourly rate to his workers. I know its not that simple to change but it's not rocket science either.

humanodon  ·  4178 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Right, but as is, most restaurant employees (except cooks) get absolutely nothing except tips. There's not even the possibility of healthcare for those workers and as they are usually paid "under the table", none of their earnings go toward anything like FICA.

What I'm saying is, there's no stability for the workers and by and large, the consumers are aware of that. Many consumers might even be sympathetic to service workers because many consumers once held similar jobs. If there were some stability, some way to be employed and not have to worry about being cut off completely, then people might feel better about demanding change. For example, right now it's difficult to get a job in a restaurant or more difficult than it used to be. Servers come and go quickly because there's usually someone waiting in the wings to take their place. When you're living hand to mouth and there's people lining up for your job, why would you go out of your way to endanger that, especially if you likely don't have money saved up for medical emergencies?

As for the same wages thing . . . well, even in the current system, there are a lot of workers who do just barely enough to make money. Then there are others who do the work of five people and get paid accordingly. I don't know that a standardized wage would be better overall, though I do think that the minimum wage for service work is necessary.

I understand that Europeans especially, find the American standards of service to be intrusive, what with all the questions. However, the first time I went to a European country, I thought the service was pretty lackluster, to the point that I couldn't find anyone when I wanted to pay my bill. So, I guessed how much it was, put down the money (sans tip of course) and left.

Kaius  ·  4178 days ago  ·  link  ·  

    I understand that Europeans especially, find the American standards of service to be intrusive, what with all the questions. However, the first time I went to a European country, I thought the service was pretty lackluster, to the point that I couldn't find anyone when I wanted to pay my bill. So, I guessed how much it was, put down the money (sans tip of course) and left.

Yep, you can find bad service anywhere, but to add to that, I didn't find the service in the US any better than the usual service we get here. Which made it hard to justify it as a separate thing I have to pay for :) That and the fact they made me work out 15% after a few beers.

Actually Im heading over there in a few weeks. I might tell the barman "Just stick X% on each beer I buy to make it easy for me, and just charge me that each time OK?". What kind of good service expects you to perform math calculations while drinking alcohol... :)

humanodon  ·  4178 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I think that's fair, on both parts. Showing consideration up front for bar and restaurant staff can go a long way toward a good experience.