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comment by _refugee_
_refugee_  ·  4057 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: How Not to Argue about Human Rights

Marcotte is quoted as saying

    We respect these rights because we know that people’s lives are made worse if they don’t have them.

This is such a broad, general, and non-quantifiable statement. A right is something that "people's lives are made worse if they don't have them"? I don' t have a million dollars and when compared to someone who does, I'm sure my life is worse. I don't own a house. I have student debt which, thank god, I can pay, but I don't have the right to declare bankruptcy on.

Can I get a house and discharge my student debt please? My life is much worse without these things.

I think she means "significantly worse off" but it's still completely unquantifiable and subjective. And there are a lot of people who ride the bus 2-4 hours a day whose lives would be made a lot better if they had either better transportation or their own transportation. I don't see the gov't getting ready to assert that a car is basic human right though.





stacker  ·  4042 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Yeah I actually cringed when reading that quote in the article. There are many options one can use to discuss secular ethics and she chose to avoid them all and write a misguided and irrational article.

thenewgreen  ·  4042 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I cringed too, but took solace in Sen's definition, which seems appropriate:

    it is just a strong way of making a normative claim. So when someone says “health care is a right,” they are really saying in a stronger voice something like “health care is really important, everyone should have the freedom to access it..

As for any religious claim for the origin of "human rights," it's very much a chicken and egg question. I'm of the mind that we've invented God, in part, to justify that which we've deemed our "human rights."

stacker  ·  4041 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Definitely agree with you there. I believe that the two biggest reasons for the creation of God by ancient humans was to explain the natural world and to create a moral code and attempt to solidify human rights.

thenewgreen  ·  4041 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I agree with those reasons but I would add to it; there is an innate spirituality that most people have. You feel it most often when you are face-to-face with the wonders of the natural world. Hiking in the mountains etc. Meditation can bring this about too. I feel like this is a uniquely human quality that comes when we are overwhelmed with awe for our natural world and the human condition. People feel the need to ascribe this to God, some people may call this feeling God. I have no problem with that. I have a major problem with the forming of a religion that is solely of human construct based around those things: explaining the natural world, the moral code and spirituality.

Also, fear of death is certainly a reason people create religion/god. There are plenty of reasons people create God/religion.

stacker  ·  4040 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I like you. You get it. There aren't many people in my real life that feel this way and sometimes I feel alone.

user-inactivated  ·  4034 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Loneliness is probably an inevitable consequence of understanding. If you see what other people don't, it sets you apart. On the downside, it's common consequence of serious mental illness too. Buck up though -- I'm betting you're an instance of the former rather than the latter...