But at the same time I wouldn't go change my whole lifestyle over an blog post that only lists secondary and even tertiary sources.
Of course not. Do what is best for you. There have been several articles posted here on vitamins. One not long ago about how the vitamin business started with Nobel Prize winner Linus Pauling and his megadoses of Vitamin C - how study after study proved him wrong, how he first proposed that vitamin C would protect against the common cold and everything else. The Vitamin Myth was published in the Atlantic. in July. I'd love to know your opinion of that article. I know a lot of people who believe vitamins are helping them. I hope they are.
I think we all do. But that fact that supplements don't work pharmacologically doesn't mean they don't so something for the person actually taking them. I'm not advocating for anyone to take a placebo on purpose, but we all do weird shit, have rituals, habits, and inexplicable tendencies that just make us feel better. I guess the difference is that when I go through my ritualistic routines, it's because I'm nuts, and not because I'm being marketed to do so by a for profit company. I think that is why us vitamin haters hate on them so much; they're a cynical play on people's insecurities by soulless companies.I know a lot of people who believe vitamins are helping them. I hope they are.
This follow-up study did find a statistically significant increase. Men who took 400 IU of vitamin E every day during the study were 17% more likely than men who didn’t take the supplement to develop prostate cancer during the 7 years they were monitored by researchers.
This is from the American Cancer Society. Crap, I'd better send that to the spousal unit now. I think he takes 400 IU of E.
If you're trying to convince them otherwise, you could mention that at no point must any vitamin / supplement manufacturer prove any sort of safety or efficacy to their product, nor are they required to have any sort of quality assurance in their manufacturing process. A third of randomly sampled vitamins didn't contain a single trace of the molecule listed on the bottle.I know a lot of people who believe vitamins are helping them. I hope they are.
Sorry to change the subject, but I just picked up a book called Predictably Irrational. I wonder if you've read it? I've just started reading it, but it's pretty interesting so far. I know that in general, people love to believe that they are logical, rational beings, but even (maybe especially?) children can see by observing adults, that this is not so. Anyway, the connection I'm making is that "health" is a mysterious thing and something that most adults become increasingly concerned with over time, but feel somewhat powerless to "win" against, which really seems to be the selling point of vitamins, minerals and extracts.
It's an incredible book. The Upside of Irrationality is pretty good too. Vitamins are talismans. They are a ward against evil spirits. They are a nutriceutical rabbit's foot. Which is not to say there aren't good vitamins. It's also not to say that there aren't good vitamins that can help you and will do great things for your overall health. But they're hard for you to buy them - on purpose - because if it has an effect, overusing it can have a negative effect. My wife was a vitamin rep in school. She still sells a lot of vitamins. But she won't give anybody anything until she's done blood tests. She had me on this one that I had to take within about 5 minutes of eating or it'd give me the goddamn dry heaves. They're not-fucking-around vitamins. I prefer not to take them. But they were prescribed me by a doctor who saw my blood and saliva tests and fuckin' a if they didn't change my metabolism. These are not the vitamins you buy at CVS. By and large, you barely digest those before pooping them out. Take them after a night of binge drinking, though, and they might cut down on the hangover. Take them every day and yeah - as the study says, they probably won't cut down on your risk of heart disease. But c'mon. In your heart of hearts, you knew that, just like with the lucky rabbit's foot.
Yeah and this is where a lot of the problem is. So many vitamin peddlers try to convince people that they don't need doctors' advice on these matters. If someone is anemic or has rickets or scurvy (picking on the obvious ones, certianly there are many disease states caused by nutrient defficiencies; hell, vitamin A deficiency is world's leading cause of blindness, I believe), obviously the best solution is supplements. It's an inexpensive and effective treatment for a lot of specific diseases. But where the US goes entirely wrong for vitamins, OTC drugs and, most importantly, prescription drugs, is in our unwillingness to regulate their marketing. Why the fuck should you or I be able to go into out doctor's office and demand Lipitor, because we saw on TV that it makes the salt and peppery hair guy smile more when he's on the beach? It's insanity. We got rid of tobacco ads, because they were deemed to be harmful. That was only possible once public opinion was so strong against tobacco companies that it was more expeditious for politicians to not take Philip Morris' giant bags of money. The same thing needs to happen with drugs. Unfortunately, drugs (and vitamins) are way harder to deal with, because they do help people, a lot of people. I think the regulatory structure needs to change, and change dramatically. People can't be blamed for not being that well informed. The personal responsibility argument only goes so far. After all, if advertising didn't work, nobody would do it.Which is not to say there aren't good vitamins. It's also not to say that there aren't good vitamins that can help you and will do great things for your overall health. But they're hard for you to buy them - on purpose - because if it has an effect, overusing it can have a negative effect.
Got it in one. You can blame Reagan for this one. Also for relaxing rules regulating marketing to children. Under Nixon, hospitals were non-profit. Under Reagan, healthcare became the most profitable industry in the United States.But where the US goes entirely wrong for vitamins, OTC drugs and, most importantly, prescription drugs, is in our unwillingness to regulate their marketing.
Oh yes, I should have been clear that I meant OTC stuff. Like them Flintstones chewables. I knew a guy that went on a crazy bender once and got beri-beri, who was given the kind of vitamins you describe. It's a good thing those kind aren't so readily available, as I'm sure they'd be misused. I am all for lucky rabbit's feet if they make people feel better, provided they don't go around disputing science because of it. For example, my uncle is a Born Again bishop, who insists that he cast a demon out of my cousin. But, from his description, it really just sounds like she was really badly feverish and then the fever broke. If praying had merely made him feel better about my cousin getting over being sick, I'd be ok with that (if he'd also taken her to a doctor).
This is where I tend to lose the /r/skeptic crowd - "Placebo effect" includes the word "effect." Ariely spends a good chapter on it. Take two placebos and tell your subject that one of them costs 10 cents per pill. Now tell him that the other placebo costs 10 dollars per pill. Both of them are placebo. The more "expensive" one is a better placebo. Different cultures respond better to different procedures: Germans love shots, for some reason. Americans like pills. It's a real, measurable, quantifiable effect. Your uncle didn't cast a demon out of your cousin. And yeah - the fever probably broke. but if your cousin truly believed your uncle, your uncle's mumbo-jumbo may damn well have helped the fever break. There's a reason every culture humanity has ever fostered has witch doctors and shamen. They work. Not as well as legit medicine generally, but better than nothing. And in this country, we dismissively tuck that into "bedside manner."
There's a reason every culture humanity has ever fostered has witch doctors and shamen. They work. Not as well as legit medicine generally, but better than nothing. And in this country, we dismissively tuck that into "bedside manner." No arguments there; the power of belief is something that is often scorned in the US. Why discard a tool when one is available?Your uncle didn't cast a demon out of your cousin. And yeah - the fever probably broke. but if your cousin truly believed your uncle, your uncle's mumbo-jumbo may damn well have helped the fever break.
False. A summary of Avatar would tell you the plot but it wouldn't be entertaining, it wouldn't stick with you, and it wouldn't give you a chance to form your own perspective.
I'm only on chapter 4, so I can't speak for the whole book, but the Wikipedia page certainly is thorough. I will say that it's well-written and that the examples are great and that I enjoy the read. What's nice is that the style invites introspection into one's own behaviors, rather than simply the presentation of findings.
Aye, hence the "If", I have, for the most part, given up trying to actively change anyone else's mind about something they haven't asked me my thoughts on. Internet forums usually make for better discourse and people have less of a tendency to pull facts out of their ass (Or at least, when they do, it's easier to call them out for it).