a thoughtful web.
Good ideas and conversation. No ads, no tracking.   Login or Take a Tour!
comment by kleinbl00
kleinbl00  ·  3988 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: What Are Things You Thought You'd Absolutely Never Change Your Opinion About?

That the continued existence of Israel is beneficial to the Middle East and the broader world at large.

Because I read up.





user-inactivated  ·  3988 days ago  ·  link  ·  

    Because I read up.
What did you read?
kleinbl00  ·  3988 days ago  ·  link  ·  
user-inactivated  ·  3987 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Thanks, I had forgotten about that post.

elizabeth  ·  3987 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Do you think the creation of Israel was a beneficial thing? It's probably not what you mean, but destroying the infrastructure that's already in place would be a shame for the whole world (especially everything medicine-related).

Many people I talk to say they should have created Israel somewhere "empty" to avoid all these conflicts, but as far as I know, it has not worked too well with Birobidzhan. Nobody wants to move to the middle of nowhere.

kleinbl00  ·  3986 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I think we'd still be fighting WWII if Israel didn't exist. Europe treats Jews like shit. England created Israel because they treated Jews the least like shit, and their benevolence was "get the fuck out of the country."

At the time of the Treaty of Balfour, Israel was effectively empty, from a European standpoint - at least as empty as Guyana or Uganda. Unlike those other two, European settlers weren't trying for permanency in Palestine, they were protecting the road to India. The first bits of what became Tel Aviv were purchased from Turkey during the 2nd Aliyah - in the name of a middleman because Jews weren't allowed to own property.

Israel was every bit the "get the fuck out of my country" exile that Australia was, the difference being the Zionists were more keen to comply because they were sick of being hunted to extinction. Meanwhile, the turf upon which Israel was established was just another Ottoman hinterland. The only thing that set Israel apart from any other British colony is it was granted autonomy; when Britain crumbled after WWII the Israelis had nowhere else to go.

So they fought.

NikolaiFyodorov  ·  3987 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I don't know if you can access Australian content where you are, but I'm still seething from watching this documentary on Monday night.

kleinbl00  ·  3986 days ago  ·  link  ·  

There were no such thing as Palestinians. When was there an independent Palestinian people with a Palestinian state? It was either southern Syria before the First World War, and then it was a Palestine including Jordan. It was not as though there was a Palestinian people in Palestine considering itself as a Palestinian people and we came and threw them out and took their country away from them. They did not exist.

Golda Meir, as quoted in the Washington Post

If I were an Arab leader, I would never sign an agreement with Israel. It is normal; we have taken their country. It is true God promised it to us, but how could that interest them? Our God is not theirs. There has been Anti - Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault ? They see but one thing: we have come and we have stolen their country. Why would they accept that?

David Ben-Gurion

The Israelis treat the Palestinians like shit. They will do so until there are no more Palestinians. The entire drive of Israel's occupation of Palestine is to eliminate Palestine.

On the flip side, "Palestine" belongs to anyone who wants to pretend to be Palestinian. Arafat was Egyptian; he spent a total of 4 years in Palestine as a kid. Hamas is Iranian; the PLO was Libyan. Israel was established as a European nail house for the Arab world so Palestine has become a nail house for Israel.

There are uncomfortable parallels between the Israeli treatment of Palestine and the American treatment of Apaches, the French treatment of Gypsies, the Australian treatment of Aboriginals, etc. It's an ugly-ass situation and the Israelis regularly commit outright evil.

But it's Israel that gives the Middle East a model other than Wahabi Islam.