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comment by thenewgreen
thenewgreen  ·  4712 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: The Universal Declaration of Human Rights
Not disagreeing on the "flawed" statements, but don't you think states need to put in to writing such things as a foundation for their respected societies? I wish it weren't necessary but then I remember the Lord of the Flies.




alpha0  ·  4712 days ago  ·  link  ·  
UN can not even manage a reasonably just security council. The entire organization is a sham. The states certainly need to sign on the paper that says "We acknowledge your rights as Humans, dear citizens". The game of UN and "member states" is that "rights" are "granted" by states. I mean, look at the Geneva Conventions. What does it say? "If you wear the uniform of a state, you will be treated right. No uniform? You're out of luck, pal".

Lord of the flies is a book. A work of fiction.

thenewgreen  ·  4712 days ago  ·  link  ·  
Lord of the flies is a book. A work of fiction. -I'm convinced it's not and that Karl Rove is the adult (psychologically damaged) incarnation of "Piggy".

Seriously though, you think that human rights are innate enough the they are intrinsically understood by all as a universal code that needs no definition? I think you would find a wide variance from country to country, state to state, city to city, household to household as to what is and is not a human right. It's an evolution of thought and different people are at different stages of this evolution.

alpha0  ·  4712 days ago  ·  link  ·  
> Seriously though, you think that human rights are innate enough the they are intrinsically understood by all as a universal code that needs no definition?

Yes. For the subset of bipeds that are Human, they are understood intrinsically.

Let me put it to you this way: Humans did and do not need God or a messenger to tell them that stealing is wrong, or killing is wrong, or sleeping with your neighbor's wife is wrong. And as to the subset of bipeds that are not Human, no piece of paper and no declaration is ever gonna knock sense into their base heads.

mk  ·  4712 days ago  ·  link  ·  
IMO this argument has merit. Rather than a 'Declaration of Rights', perhaps it should instead be a pledge by the UN to uphold human rights, which I agree, do precede any government or document.

Instead of:

Everyone has the right to a...

it might read:

The UN pledges to guarantee/defend/advance/uphold? everyone's right to a...

That's government in service of rights, not doling them out.

thenewgreen  ·  4712 days ago  ·  link  ·  
And as to the subset of bipeds that are not Human, no piece of paper and no declaration is ever gonna knock sense into their base heads. -True, but the written rule of law will dissuade them from acting on their perverse beliefs, will it not? So, the writing of a declaration of human rights by a state authority isn't there so much as a method to convert the crazies but rather, keep them in line.
alpha0  ·  4712 days ago  ·  link  ·  
Funny. Who'd you say Piggy was, and were did he work, again?

> the writing of a declaration of human rights by a state authority isn't there so much as a method to convert the crazies but rather, keep them in line.

May I suggest you review the Gospels and read all about the law and order crowd? Remember you said something about Sunday schooling for a while :)

Agreed that for the time being, the Human is stuck between a rock and a hard place on this planet. But my vote is for the nation state and not the fully unaccountable UN.

thenewgreen  ·  4712 days ago  ·  link  ·  
It was actually Wednesday night schooling. My point is simply that the rights that you claim as innate ought to be law. Why? Because there are inevitably those that would seek to restrict those rights in the name of religion, nationalism or just plane lunacy. I have no love for the UN and I don't pretend it to be effective or ethical.

I agree that nation states ought to have their own autonomy.