a thoughtful web.
Good ideas and conversation. No ads, no tracking.   Login or Take a Tour!
Vozka's profile
Vozka

x 4

stats
following: 7
followed tags: 1
followed domains: 0
badges given: 0 of 0
hubskier for: 4836 days

recent comments, posts, and shares:
Vozka  ·  3032 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: Pubski: August 3, 2016

Unfortunately my sources are pretty bad - Mileta, the only textile company still running (afaik) has this info on its website. It was easy to confirm that it's true (by that I mean the fact that there were several running factories at some point) by googling and finding some mentions here and there, but nothing more. According to a historical postcard, one of the factories was called "EM. FEUERSLEIN A SPOL", but again, no more information to be found. Towns around here often have tons of historical records in their archives or in local libraries that would surely contain useful information, but it's almost never digitalized (=takes a long time to search through it, it would also obviously be in czech or german) and may not be easy to get to.

Vozka  ·  3032 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: Pubski: August 3, 2016

Czech here, I'd start here, textile was traditionally produced there and there were several active factories at the beginning of the 20th century. Feel free to message me if you need help with something, I don't log in every day, but I'll try to help.

To be honest, I don't know about any research directly comparing omnis, constant directivity speakers with 2pi/imited dispersion and non-CD speakers. But yes, modern research in psychoacoustics says that constant directivity is one of the most important factors in the sound being percieved as real and natural, and some of the (well-known and rational) researchers mention omnis as one of the solutions, although they obviously mention that they're not very suitable for small untreated rooms. But to claim that omnis go against everything we know about sound reproduction is uneducated and together with assuming various types of bias just because I don't agree with him borderline delusional.

You can't seriously think that "it sounds like shit" and "it splashes high frequency all over the back wall" are objective arguments about sound quality while discounting anything I say as subjective without actually responding, that's bizzare. Judging by your reasoning about room interactions and some hypotetical closed headphones that don't exist, you obviously know nothing about much research in psychoacoustics (have you at least read about constant directivity?), or the reality of home speaker design.

  
(and I'm saying that as someone who despises audiophile bullshit, doesn't own omni speakers or any expensive hifi really and is not planning to buy any)

Yes, I have, and I found the sound unnatural like I said. I actually do most of my listening on in a near-field ambiophonics configuration because it makes sense in my acoustically bad room and it sounds great, I'm planning to build a pair of Synergy horns for the same reason, but I recognize that it is a compromise.

  
Like you said, measuring and listening are two different things. Acoustically dead rooms may make sense in a studio, but the overwhelming majority of people do not prefer them at home, this has been repeatedly proven (but you reminded me of this, which was afaik written by Toole, and may apply to you ). The quality of stereo reproduction is not just about hearing the most details but also about the illusion of space and that is better achieved with controlled room interaction.

  
What you're saying about headphones, again, is silly, and simplifies the reality extremely. I have built a few headphone prototypes and getting them sound right is much more difficult than building decent speakers, which, to a certain point, has been solved.

  
I have no idea what you're trying to say about me mentioning Linkwitz and Toole. Are you arguing that agreeing with you, a completely unknown person on the internet, whose experience is completely different than mine, makes more sense than agreeing with people whose life-long research (that everyone can read about) says something that is mostly consistent with my own experience? I don't see how Bose is relevant here, are you saying that what Toole and Linkwitz designed sounds like shit as well, or do you think they're a part of the audiophile woo community?

  
(also, I'd argue that Bose is kinda genious because he was obviously in it to make money, not to push audiophile standards, and boy did he succeed. And there's nothing inherently bad about using paper as a base material for cones, there's a reason it's still used in most pro drivers.)

You realize that your statement, effectively, is that omnidirectional speakers can sound as good as directional speakers if you negate all the effects of their omnidirectionality?

But I didn't say that. I actually said that in an acoustically dead room everything sounds shit. Just like in a completely empty room everything sounds like shit. You need to place differently radiating speakers differently and use different room treatment (not just absorbtion, but also difusion) for the best sound, how isn't that obvious? Yes, narrower constant directivity speakers will almost always sound better, but omnis will in many cases sound better than any traditional non-CD speakers.

  
From an acoustical standpoint, everything beyond closed-basket headphones is a compromise

Well this is just silly. A closed acoustical system of such small size affected by the shape and size of everyones head and ear is almost impossible to do right, and the imaging of large headphones has many compromises, only different ones than speakers do. Maybe in-ear monitors playing binaural recordings could be closer, at least in the second aspect. But you seem to be saying that something like putting speakers in an anechoic chamber to completely remove any interactions would be the ideal system, and that's be wrong.

  
It's not that you're uneducated. It's that you've been lied to.

So on one end we have your experience and on the other end we have my experience and research of people like Siegfried Linkwitz or Floyd Toole, one of the few sane people in the industry. What do you expect me to say?

I'm not as uneducated about speakers as you think I am. Even though early reflections are undesirable, constant directivity over most of the spectrum (down to at least 700 Hz) is more important for how natural the speakers sound than the angle at which they are designed to radiate (if the directivity varies), although narrow constant directivity speakers obviously behave better in small/untreated rooms. Any speakers with beaming treble will sound sound like shit unless your room is acoustically dead, in which case anything you put in there will sound like shit. You always get reflections, the point is to a) reduce the very early ones without killing the later ones b) make the reflections have similar frequency response as the direct sound, because in that case your brain will identify them as natural sources of sound in your room, making the stereo image sound real. This is the point of modern speakers with controlled directivity, speakers with beaming treble have been here for decades. Omnidirectional speakers do b) naturally and can get reasonably close to a) if you have a big room with decent treatment.

But they're not splashing just high frequency everywhere, they're omnidirectional at all frequencies, it's not like the rest of the spectrum doesn't get reflected at all. Yes, obviously speakers with narrower constant directivity will sound more detailed and less affected by room interaction overall, but this is a legitimate concept coming from the idea that many natural sources of sound are omnidirectional as well. It's not bullshit, it's just a different type of compromise for stereo reproduction. After hearing the Duevels I'd love to have a pair of decent omnis as secondary speakers (together with some Geddes-like speakers or Synergy horns) if I had the space.

About the MBLs: why do you think the concept is stupid? I haven't heard them, but it surprises me a bit that you considered them bad, that's probably the first time I've heard someone dissing them. But my point is, omnidirective speakers sound like a decent concept (although ideally for a better room), and the ones I've heard, some entry-level Duevels, sounded pretty great - not too detailed, lacking bass, but with an amazing soundstage better than anything I've heard at that price.

Vozka  ·  3579 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: Pipe Smoking: Why I do it, and why you should try it.

I actually almost never smoked in public because I was around 20 and looked hipsterish and didn't want to look like a poser. I still identify with everything goldbludgeon said. There are definitely more ways to stop and relax, but this used to be my favourite. (I'm unfortunately pretty much straight edge due to unrelated health problems and I do miss it)

Thanks, as you probably noticed I'm new here, so I appreciate the information. I didn't know it's possible to make posts with more than one tag, which indeed seems like the best solution.