coi ro do (Hi, everyone.)
I've recently started learning Lojban and I need some help[1]. One of the goals of Lojban is cultural neutrality, a goal which may prove unattainable. However, it still retains mostly cis and heterosexual concepts despite known bisexual speakers. There have been some proposals but they are conceptually, not to mention grammatically, problematic.
So, I pose several questions to you:
How do you identify, in terms of gender and/or orientation or lack thereof? What precisely do you mean by that identification? What are some queer concepts and experiences that you have difficulty describing with "standard" vocabulary? Would you be willing to help me coin words for Lojban speaking QUILTBAGs? Does anyone here speak a constructed language? (Lojban, Esperanto, Láadan, Toki Pona, Klingon, et cetera)Thank you for reading this and helping a Loj-fag out.
[1]Don't make the xkcd joke; every Lojban speaker has already heard it.
Gender female, sex male, bisexual.
I was assigned male sex at birth because they saw a penis and that's the identification criteria. I realised that the chemicals in my brain were not happy with testosterone because it resulted in depression from the onset of puberty and the depression stopped after I removed the testosterone and put in estrogen.
I'm sexually interested in both genders and only romantically interested in women at the moment. Gender and sex are confusing as hell in modern languages, I don't think German differentiates the two concepts by noun at all, and English common usage doesn't really differentiate too much. Sex is frequently called biological sex, although this doesn't really capture it either, and Germany/Australia using 'Third Sex' options show that really sex isn't as determinate as one might want.
Preferably there would be Gender(Assigned), Gender(Identifying), Gender(Presenting/Expression) but the first use only makes sense in a medical context, the second to oneself, and the third to others. English uses sexuality from a relative standpoint instead of an independent standpoint, and that makes life confusing if you're trans. So if I liked women only, I'd start out as heterosexual and end up homosexual? At what point was the change?
Androsexual & Gynesexual seem to be more intelligible. But that doesn't take into account people who straight up don't identify with one gender more than the other, or people who are attracted to those who don't seem very masculine or feminine. Gender(Expression) Sexual? Then you have people who are asexual but still form relationships that aren't based on sexual attraction, I'm sure they have a type too. I know a few girls who are straight but are sexually bisexual, and a few guys who are romantically only into one gender but would have sex with either if they were attracted to them. Would it be beneficial to divide attraction into the Greek forms?
So Lojban has "mi prami do", where "prami" communicates an idea of love and "cinmo" could communicate feeling, but neither really hit the spot for sexual interest. Huh, making up language words is fun, I see why you do it. You’re right, they are bad at this.
“woman-become-man for male to female transsexuals(or past-man-woman)
reverse the genders for the other direction.
monadic? or places for former and present names
pc:
This leaves out a lot of possibilities: transgendered (i.e., living as other
gender without body alteration), transvestite, and, of course, homosexual and
heterosexual. And this does not even get into the mass of biologically
defined variant sexes: xx males (hypersensitive to testosterone), xy females
(lack testosterone receptors), xyy males and overt hermaphrodites of various
degrees
“
They have no idea. Transgendered isn’t a word, because ‘to transgender’ doesn’t make sense. It’s like watching someone stumble at scratching the surface, to mix metaphors. Woman-become-man doesn’t make sense either; it’s conflating assigned gender and gender identity until it makes transition sound like either a choice or a cosmetic decision, like people change gender because the other one looks more fun. Variant sexes is going way too far until you can express the basics well enough.
Can I guess 95%+ of Lojban speakers are male? Orgasm/Climax is JUST sexual release?
The current Lojban gismu {cinse} has this problem. It doesn't distinguish between orientation or gender: cinse
x1 in activity/state x2 exhibits sexuality/gender/sexual orientation x3 (ka) by standard x4. There have been small discussions about changing this or creating a compound word to separate them, but little has come of it. In Lojban, as in many parts of English, all gismu are both nouns and verbs; more accurately, they are logical predicates of arguments. I would assume so, but based on the activity on my Twitter feed, the ones doing the most creative work are cisgender women. What else is it? >.>Gender and sex are confusing as hell in modern languages, I don't think German differentiates the two concepts by noun at all, and English common usage doesn't really differentiate too much
They have no idea. Transgendered isn’t a word, because ‘to transgender’ doesn’t make sense.
Variant sexes is going way too far until you can express the basics well enough. Can I guess 95%+ of Lojban speakers are male?
Orgasm/Climax is JUST sexual release?
Turkish does not have gender pronouns or gendered words. Alas Turks still a bit sexist
It is a test of the Worf/Sapir Hypothesis keep me informed.
I agree with false but it seems embedded in the question. Couldn't one just choose a number of lexical gaps and assign them to the categories? or go with 'likes men' 'likes women' 'likes men and women'?
I have never heard of lojban before, so excuse me if I am wrong. If it is a "logical language" (that's what I'm getting right here), woulnd't gender be constructed with what already exists in lojban? I read that there are 1350 root words, and I'm sure that "male" "person" "changed" and "female" exist in the roots, so couldn't you say something like "I" "am (to be present tense)" "female" "changed (to change past tense)" "male" for trans for example (I really have no idea if this is how lojban works, I'm guessing). Or "I" "love" "male" "and" "female" for bisexual people. And if that turns out to be a really long word then just shorten it like Esperanto's Mojosa (MOderna-Juna-Stilo, or Modern Young Style). I don't really see how LGBT terms would be useful often however, I mean, if you go to a party and meet someone you would say "Hey I'm CardboardLamp", instead of "Hey I'm CardboardLamp, I'm a color of race, sexual orientation, age, etc etc etc", unless you're at an event specially held for LGBT members. (I don't really get the point of those either, I mean, why would I hold a party specifically for straight people or black people? When I could just invite everyone I care for). And could you tell me what you mean by "retains mostly cis and heterosexual concepts despite known speakers"? Are there words only straight people can use? That doesn't seem really "logical" with the whole cultural neutral thing. Anyways, the questions you are asking: 1) I'm a straight. I have an SO, etc 2) I am in love with the person of my opposite gender. 3) Nothing really. Could you give me some examples? I might just not be remembering any off the top of my head right now. 4) I don't speak lojban nor am I interested in it, so no thanks. 5) Esperanto Why do you have to specifically specify "feminists, POC, and marginalized peoples"? I don't think most of them stop when they see an internet post to check if they're invited before posting a reply. And is it not about cultural neutrality? It seems like you want it to be diverse, within the range of the above people you mentioned specifically.
Unfortunately, gender dysphoria and the transgender experience are way more complicated than that. It isn't that they are becoming a woman or a man; it is that they already are one but are taking the necessary steps to match their minds and their bodies. Read Julia Serano's "Whipping Girl: A Transsexual Woman on Sexism and the Scapegoating of Femininity" and Antonio Demasio's "The Feeling of What Happens: Body and Emotion in the Making of Consciousness" for an introduction to the basic ideas involved. This does not work for Lojban due to its word-formation rules. Lojban requires what is called "self-segregating morphology", so any words that violate a certain pattern will wreak havoc on the rest of the grammar. Most Lojbanic expression happens through text in the form of chatrooms and there are a lot of bisexual people in Lojbanistan, so it is only natural to include them. I am discussing issues of cisnormativity and cisgender privilege. You can't be culturally neutral without diversity."I" "am (to be present tense)" "female" "changed (to change past tense)" "male" for trans for example (I really have no idea if this is how lojban works, I'm guessing)
And if that turns out to be a really long word then just shorten it like Esperanto's Mojosa (MOderna-Juna-Stilo, or Modern Young Style).
I don't really see how LGBT terms would be useful often however, I mean, if you go to a party and meet someone you would say "Hey I'm CardboardLamp", instead of "Hey I'm CardboardLamp, I'm a color of race, sexual orientation, age, etc etc etc", unless you're at an event specially held for LGBT members.
And could you tell me what you mean by "retains mostly cis and heterosexual concepts despite known speakers"?
And is it not about cultural neutrality? It seems like you want it to be diverse,
1.) identify as male assigned at birth (MAAB) transgender woman. 2.) that means I have lived my life as a man (and still mostly do) outwardly, while feeling like this is incorrect, instead feeling that a female public persona is more correct. 3.) I think the idea of "feeling" a gender is bizarre and difficult to understand. it definitely qualifies as being difficult to describe with standard vocabulary. 4.) You are more than welcome to run ideas by me if you'd like. I think a good place to look is in languages which already have a 3rd gender and see how they distinguish the third gender from the other two (i.e. Herr, Het, Hen (being the third)). 5.) no constructed languages for me (save music).
Do you know of anyone in philosophy who does "queer epistemology" or "phenomenological epistemology"? I've been fascinated by how one discovers and identifies one's "correct" (for lack of a better word) gender and orientation. I think if it could become a respectable aspect of philosophy and psychology, it could have implications even for cisgender and heterosexual people.3.) I think the idea of "feeling" a gender is bizarre and difficult to understand. it definitely qualifies as being difficult to describe with standard vocabulary.