This more than anything else disappointed me. Other than the fact that it was a conversation that was instigated on someone else's post and derailed it, I thought the whole thing should've played out without any spectators. No point to it. Seemed like the sort of thing that happens on reddit, not hubski. I didn't bother to read any of it. I got about as far as him/her calling you sexist, which you aren't, and figured the rest wouldn't make anyone any happier.(my beatdowns of Ramona being heavily "hubbed" or whatever are proof of that)
We sort of do. It just also happens to be the 'meh' function. NOT circle-dotting something though still isn't the functional equivalent of a downvote. (Sorry for continuing the reddit analogy) Edit to include I had a better way of stating it. On Hubski, you can only be for something. You cannot be against something.
You can be against something with thoughtful argument (but that takes thought and argument, intelligence, research and patience), with irony (which is often misunderstood), and tongue-in-cheekiness (which is frequently taken literally). You can also be against something by ignoring it. veen's statement, reinforced by kleinbl00 (who weirdly enhanced my dreams all night): This would be another great slogan: civility is a design choice as much as a cultural choice
is intriguing and as true for web design as it is for urban design.Hubski: Where civility is a design choice
I would alter it to: Hubski. Civility by design. Maybe it's dwelling on definitions, but I much prefer motto or philosophy over slogan. Slogan seems to me like something a marketingteam has to add afterwards, while a philosophy is a guiding principle on which new decisions can be based.
You just did. And it's totally not tomorrow yet!
As you can imagine, we put a lot of time and thought in to the "motto" for Hubski (I too dislike the term slogan). At first I had wanted to have it read: Hubski -are you thoughtful? Because I wanted people to feel challenged by it. I wanted to let people know that there was an expectation. mk wisely, and strongly disagreed and preferred "a thoughtful web" which is what is there next to "Hubski" when you are logged out. I like "Hubski -Civility by design" and hope the site can continue to live up to such a lofty philosophy.
I agree with mk, I much prefer 'a thoughtful web' because the other one sounds almost threatening: are you even thoughtful?!!?! A true motto has to be in Latin, so if I translated it correctly (my Latin is rough) it should be in civilitate consilium, which can mean both civility through design as civility through wisdom (consilium can mean both plan, wisdom as judgement.
thenewgreen: While that's true, we actually put most of the time and thought into after the fact. I put up "a thoughtful web" with only a little consideration. Over time we have asked ourselves whether or not we should say something different, if anything at all. We keep coming back to it. I like that it works on more than one level, and that it begs interpretation. I don't view Hubski users as customers, and I don't intend to encourage that kind of relationship unnecessarily. There is no doubt that we are providing a kind of service here with the site, but I want to create a new space, and I don't see why at the same time we can't carve out a little bit of new space in an economic sense as well. In fact, the latter might be necessary if we are to succeed at the first. On a somewhat related tangent, I find it bizarre how in this day, companies will relate to their customers in ways that their customers wouldn't dare relate to each other. Take radio advertisements, for example. By and large (at least in the US) radio advertisements often employ a sense of humor that only a genuine idiot might appreciate. They are loud, obnoxious, and not funny. A terribly offensive and degrading interaction has become normalized in radio advertising simply because it works. I never want to start talking about you all behind closed doors as if you were somehow different than me. The day that we start doing that is the day that Hubski starts to die. The site might grow as a result, but Hubski will wither and die.As you can imagine, we put a lot of time and thought in to the "motto" for Hubski (I too dislike the term slogan).
This is certainly true of larger, syndicated radio stations. It's appealing to the lowest common denominator and taking the easiest route to a quick dollar. Plus, if you're the radio station or underwriter it's easier to sell. Most of the ads run on those kind of radio stations aren't exactly high-brow businesses anyway. I actually have a decent amount of experience with creating, marketing, and running radio advertisements and have been fortunate enough to do so through a college-station in a mid-sized market. We avoid advertisements like you have described at all costs.By and large (at least in the US) radio advertisements often employ a sense of humor that only a genuine idiot might appreciate.
I don't see the users of Hubski as customers and I'll also never see them as a product. While that's true, we actually put most of the time and thought into after the fact.
-True, true. I recall a list of words/phrases put together only to return to what was already there. I never want to start talking about you all behind closed doors as if you were somehow different than me
-I agree, I am first and foremost a hubskier. It would be a very sad thing if I felt otherwise. I think it was flagamuffin that recently said that he approaches each conversation on Hubski as if the other person likely knows more about the topic than he does. I too take this approach and I extend it to the understanding of the site itself. This place is special to me because of the collection of people that use it. For this reason, I think the hubski logo is perfect, I see the smaller dots as individuals and the larger one as the collective. at the same time we can't carve out a little bit of new space in an economic sense as well. In fact, the latter might be necessary if we are to succeed at the first.
I'd like to hear more about these new ideas.
That's just it, though - from a perspective of civility and discourse, "meh" is very much not the same thing as "disapproval." And to be clear, that's something that definitely shouldn't change. The fact that me and Ramona's dust-up has pretty much been the big event for the past week emphasizes that people really aren't comfortable with flame wars, no matter how civilly they're conducted. The lack of "disapproval buttons" has required, like, five different people to weigh in with thoughtful discourses about the problem. Curious to see how it pencils out as the community gets larger. This sort of thing only works up to a point... but in my opinion, works hella better than a downvote button.