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comment by Grendel
Grendel  ·  3429 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: Men's contraceptive pills are coming.

I've conceded that the Scotsmans' poll is unscientific, but I've also explained that that doesn't really matter in this case.

    The report there is that ~33% say they they have risked pregnancy without "discussing pregnancy with their partners"; that could mean anything

Actually the article is pretty clear about what it means. It means that those women neglected to use the pill while in a relationship with men whom they considered husband material, and the men were unaware of this fact. At least some of those women probably got pregnant as a result of this tactic; some of those men have been tricked into becoming fathers.

    I think you are inferring that people are attacking you on the basis of gender. All the responses I've seen have been courteous.

Oh, please. The very first response was a petty attack that tried to discredit my argument by associating it with a supposedly misogynist subreddit. At least two people have called me a troll. That's not what I would call courteous. It's pathetically obvious that this animosity is politically motivated.

    The issue is only "controversial" because, again, you fail to provide reputable sources.

I've provided two. I'm the only one in this thread who's provided any source for his claims, and they're both valid.





arguewithatree  ·  3429 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Why doesn't it matter in this case? You did say that but didn't really provide explanation.

True you are the only one who has provided sources but you are the only one making claims. Once again, reputable to is the key word in my sentence. You provided 1 source that you yourself are discrediting. Your other source is pop-science.

Outside of your thread, people are commenting on the fact that this is a neat scientific development and, contrary to your main point, speculation that women will happily share the burden. I think most other threads on the subject in other parts of the internet would reveal the same thing.

Re: allegations of trolling, the nice ^ thing about hubski is that shitposting isn't going to get people very far. Posts calling you a troll are outnumbered by posts on the scientific.

^Which is not to say I don't love me some good shitposting. I just have other venues for it.

Grendel  ·  3429 days ago  ·  link  ·  

See

    you are the only one making claims

Everyone else is claiming that women will welcome this pill with open arms. What sources have they cited for this? None. It's just their opinion and maybe that of their girlfriends.

    Once again, reputable to is the key word in my sentence. You provided 1 source that you yourself are discrediting. Your other source is pop-science.

Reputable is relative. I wouldn't trust a girls magazine with accurately explaining quantum mechanics, but I think they're qualified enough to ask their readers some simple questions (are you a lying whore? y/n). I'm not sure what you mean with "pop-science", but the person who conducted the study is a professional.

I'm starting to get tired of this thread. I wish people would have the balls to just insult me, without expecting me to take them seriously. I can appreciate honesty and the occasional flame war, but having to defend yourself from an endless barrage of pseudo-arguments is just tiring. You're wrong! I'm right! End of discussion! Everyone who disagrees can kiss my shiny metal ass.

arguewithatree  ·  3429 days ago  ·  link  ·  

If you're looking for insults, you're in the wrong place, bud. Also why are our arguments pseudo and yours aren't? As noted before, this isn't reddit. We are going to critically analyze what you post without resorting to shit posts. Sorry that you are tired of it. Sorry that you don't think people are being honest with you -- I think plenty of people are being plenty honest with you about how your posts are perceived while also presenting their arguments.

And to respond to your previous points: decoy questions are relevant to a survey because they help to filter out bogus answers and create more reputable research; response rate also gives you a realistic view of your data... a good response rate for a survey is approximately 10% and when you're already operating on a small pool of people, 10% is tiny, so reporting that you surveyed X number but received Y responses is critical to understanding the validity of your research; the questions are biased because you only get one side of the story (cheaters vs the cheated on).

ETA: I just reread everyone else's responses again and they are all personal. I would be happy to use this. They actually don't make any sweeping generalizations.

Quatrarius  ·  3429 days ago  ·  link  ·  

He's using the time-honored "deny that the other person is a competent human being argument", well tested and proved to be of good use. He falls back onto it when all else fails.

Grendel  ·  3429 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Sorry, I don't have infinite time and energy to argue with the intellectual equivalent of a dog. I explain my positions and I try to reply as patiently as I can, but even my patience has its limits. When people are being dumb and I'm getting bored, you can't expect me to keep spoonfeeding you ad nauseam. I suppose from now on, when someone makes some kind of pseudo-argument in response to one of my posts, I'll just call him an idiot and save myself time.

user-inactivated  ·  3429 days ago  ·  link  ·  

i hope you get friendzoned

user-inactivated  ·  3429 days ago  ·  link  ·  

min said like that hasn't already happened

it's the only explanation

Quatrarius  ·  3429 days ago  ·  link  ·  

:^)

arguewithatree  ·  3429 days ago  ·  link  ·  

;)

Grendel  ·  3429 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Actually, I've already been insulted in this thread, so I'd say this is the right place!

    Also why are our arguments pseudo and yours aren't?

Because yours don't make sense.

    And to respond to your previous points: decoy questions are relevant to a survey because they help to filter out bogus answers and create more reputable research

How does asking a person "what planet are you on?" create more reputable research?

    response rate also gives you a realistic view of your data... a good response rate for a survey is approximately 10% and when you're already operating on a small pool of people, 10% is tiny, so reporting that you surveyed X number but received Y responses is critical to understanding the validity of your research

5000 or 500 are both small numbers from a statistical point of view, and I expect that if the difference was even bigger than that, the magazine wouldn't have reported the results in the first place.

    the questions are biased because you only get one side of the story (cheaters vs the cheated on).

Yeah, but they got the side of the person who cheated. Are you saying that people are biased against themselves?

This is what I mean when I say pseudo-arguments. Stuff that's meant to sound intelligent but is actually nonsense.

arguewithatree  ·  3429 days ago  ·  link  ·  

but why don't they make sense? you haven't alluded to it at all.

as you said before, that is just an example. i'm referring to the use of decoy questions period. you said decoy questions are irrelevant; i said why they are not.

sorry i don't understand what you mean when you talk about the numbers and publishing. 400 is also a small number but apparently that's enough for you to conclude that "a large majority of women" try to become pregnant without their partners knowledge.

what i meant was that if you sent out 5000 surveys, and 500 people responded, you would say we surveyed 500 people; i think the average reader then reads that as 500 people responded in this way and thus is an accurate representation of a population. reporting the response rate (surveyed 5000 only 500 responded) then demonstrates the gap created by non respondents which indicates how reputable the information is. to go back to your example, one-third of 400 women surveyed said that they risked pregnancy. however, if more people responded (and since there is no report rate, we don't know how many people didn't respond) we would have totally different statistics. one-third of 400 is approx. 130, while 1/3 of 5000 is approx. 1666.

another thing we've completely neglected is the demographics of the group interviewed. 400 community college students. i think your results would vary wildly if you took a more generalized survey.

again i don't understand what you mean by biased against themselves. a good survey would present both questions (have you cheated and have you been cheated on). this comes back to the decoy questions. if i want to survey cheaters, i will also ask them whether they have been cheated on so they are more likely to answer honestly.

what exactly is nonsense? i think i have been very clear and tried to explain where you pointed out that you were confused.

Grendel  ·  3429 days ago  ·  link  ·  

You're an idiot. Next!

arguewithatree  ·  3429 days ago  ·  link  ·  

fascinating.

Quatrarius  ·  3429 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Quick, make this face!

:^)

arguewithatree  ·  3429 days ago  ·  link  ·  

:^)

i'm more of a fan of :3