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comment by thenewgreen
thenewgreen  ·  4549 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: Can blue-collar men have anything?
I think a lot of the debate going on right now doesn't have to do with whether woman should or shouldn't have the same opportunities but rather whether they can have those opportunities and still raise their families the way they would like to. Hence the "have it all" part. This debate is due, in part, to the writing of the former director of policy planning at the State Dept Anne Marie Slaughter. What should be discussed is that nobody can have it "all", whether they be male or female. It would be a nice thing to get passed having to put "men" in the title of this article and just say "blue collar workers", but it would also be nice for people that say women can't have it "all" and be CEO's etc to realize that the men in CEO positions can't either. Hey, guess what... if you work 70 hours a week you're not going to have time with your family... whether you're a mom or a dad.

    If we accept what the author posits, that there can be a 'proper question to ask', I see no good reason why the author's question is the correct one at this stage in the game for our society. All other things being equal, if I'm a job seeker in the USA today, please let me be a man, and (incidentally) please let me be white.
The last 3 hires on my team at work were all women. All 3 of which are capable and smart. I would wager that there were a number of capable and smart men that applied as well. We also have a number of women in senior management positions and our CEO is African American. Times are changing. I work right in the thick of all this and I see, time and again that the people advancing are the ones that are two things: 1. the most capable and 2. the most connected. This has nothing to do with race/sex.

From where I sit, the future (in this regard) looks positive.





ecib  ·  4549 days ago  ·  link  ·  
I agree that the times are changing. I just don't feel disadvantaged being a white male. Quite the opposite in fact. I used to do technical staffing for other companies only 4 years ago and was told on multiple occasions that they didn't want black people sent to interview (the code word for that is "diversity candidate" btw). We are making progress, and I am glad for it. But I just don't believe that men are getting shunted in the aggregate. I think if anybody has any portion of the deck stacked against them, it is certain minorities, and to a much lesser extent, women. Mostly though, the most capable and connected people are coming away with the brass ring. There are a whole other set of social injustices that impede certain people from being 'capable' by the time they should be entering the professional world, but that is a whole other can of worms.

On the first point, yeah, I don't think that men or women can have it all. You only have so much time, but it really depends on how you define 'having it all'. Women can be CEOs and have families. They can certainly have it all in that sense. But in doing so, they are going to have to make the same time-family sacrifices that men do.

thenewgreen  ·  4549 days ago  ·  link  ·  
    Women can be CEOs and have families. They can certainly have it all in that sense. But in doing so, they are going to have to make the same time-family sacrifices that men do.
Thats really the point I wanted to make. Any good man wants to spend as much time as possible with their kids, just like woman do. I think presenting this as a new conundrum is a slap in the face to many men.

I agree that being a white male is the best starting point, for sure. I wouldn't know... I'm brownish.

You're right though, capability is something that is earned and many people don't get the chance or the tools to do so.

thenewgreen  ·  4549 days ago  ·  link  ·  
All this said, I'm done with work and I can hear my daughter laughing in the other room. See-ya suckers!
ecib  ·  4549 days ago  ·  link  ·  
How can the laughter in your daughter's eyes possibly compete with a political discussion about sexism in the workplace with people on the internet? Please...
thenewgreen  ·  4549 days ago  ·  link  ·  
It was a fun afternoon. We went to the pool and then got tacos. Daddy/daughter time is pretty kick ass. Now back to why sexism in the workplace is moot... jk.