Great Post! Even as a devoutly religious person, I think you're squarely spot on with several of your observations. For example, this is a fantastic thought, and eloquently put: I don't necessarily agree with this point: Science is AWESOME - but it is also flawed. Not necessarily the process, but we make mistakes in our assumptions all the time. The prevailing winds of science change constantly. I'm not saying this to discount science - or say we should only live by faith - but simply that science is not perfect either. In our quest for answers through the scientific method, we make mistakes and assumptions that only come to light later. I love this: I have seen in my life and in the life of others when, instead of religion inspiring us to dream the impossible, it has stifled progression. For example - some people disagree with ALL stem cell research because SOME stem cells come from embryos. That to me is sad. So much that could be good for humans is stifled because of the vocal religious beliefs of some. Religion should inspire us to seek out ALL knowledge. You discuss the New Atheist. Perhaps I'm one of the new believers. I believe in a God that wants me to... no... EXPECTS me to learn all I can, to seek out knowledge and do as much good for as many as possible. I guess this is my way of saying - I don't think religion (and I come at that from a decidedly Christian angle) and science need to be mutually exclusive. I believe they can coexist. Science has explained so much - and perhaps in a few years it will explain everything. Until then, I suppose I will hold to exploration and faith. Thanks again for a great post.Can religion as we have come to know it exist in a world of Gods? Or is the real “end” of religion the beginning of something heaven-like?
Fundamental cause 2. is gone and isn’t coming back. Sciences explanatory reach is here to stay. Religion will continue to lose all ground when it comes to explanation.
On a personal level, I feel as though religion has always been a dream of our species. We have used religion to dream of the impossible. As I state above, we dream of the infinite, but it has always been far out of our grasp.
"Science is AWESOME - but it is also flawed. Not necessarily the process, but we make mistakes in our assumptions all the time. The prevailing winds of science change constantly." Your hypothesis on science is flawed, and rejected by observation. As Sean Carroll notes, "The Laws Underlying The Physics of Everyday Life Are Completely Understood". [ http://www.preposterousuniverse.com/blog/2010/09/23/the-laws.../ ] Science, while revisable, converges on robust facts and theories. It is too late to imagine "mistakes", and the gaps are gone too. We now know that the universe _must_ be a result of a spontaneous process, that independent of that there _can't_ be any soul et cetera. And as for the deist cop out, the cosmology analysis now stands between multiverses, so physics is local, or naturalness, so physics is forced. Eg magic can't slip in there either. Game over! Of course, it will take magic believers decades to get to grips with the facts. For example, officially the catholic church has no magic agency at the moment, because their latest bid was that it wouldn't have to create a universe but it absolutely had to create a unique human breeder pair. So that agency was found false 2011 from sequencing the neanderthal nuclear genome. And "remarkably", that church hasn't acknowledged their problem with truth yet. As per the usual scam practice.
Only a Sith deals in absolutes. :-) Seriously though, I'll disagree. You say revision, I say mistake. Science doesn't explain everything. Neither does religion.It is too late to imagine "mistakes", and the gaps are gone too. We now know that the universe _must_ be a result of a spontaneous process, that independent of that there _can't_ be any soul et cetera.
Science doesn't deal in absolutes, it deals in uncertainty and quality - testing against uncertainty beyond reasonable doubt. From a standpoint of uncertainty and quality we can observe that the gaps are gone. Thus the theological/religious game against observable knowledge is over. "You say revision, I say mistake." Context? I didn't say "revision". "Science doesn't explain everything. Neither does religion." Religion explains nothing, now that it can't predict 'gaps'. Science is in the business to make predictions on everything that is (the universe), but obviously it doesn't claim to predict everything. That is not a bug, it is a feature - compare with how religion tried the latter.
You have no idea how happy that makes me. I wanted to make a post about the evolution of religion that was true to my thoughts on the issue, but at the same time something that could speak to someone of faith. I hope this is what religion is evolving into. I have met a lot of people who are starting to speak of God in such terms. I was in fact quite moved by the way Malala Yousafzai used God in her recent U.N. speech. I think it falls in line with Daniel Dennett's theory about the adaptability of religion. As humans demand high morals, higher levels of evidence for belief, etc. God must evolve to accommodate our new standards. See convo with washedup in this thread. I think we both agreed that, due to the nature of our universe, problems and mystery are infinite. Interesting to know your thoughts. Keep your faith if it is an important part of yourself. If it doesn't get in the way of your scientific curiosity or your love of humanity then what harm can it do? I am only antagonistic towards those that use faith to justify hate and reduce world knowledge.Evan as a devout religious person, I think you're squarely spot on with several of your observations.
Perhaps I'm one of the new believers. I believe in a God that wants me to... no... EXPECTS me to learn all I can, to seek out knowledge and do as much good for as many as possible.
Science has explained so much - and perhaps in a few years it will explain everything
Until then, I suppose I will hold to exploration and faith.
Nah.. I don't get this sense. Even from members of my own congregation... there's still way too much "they" and "them" discussion. The sooner we get to "us" the better. I sick of the rhetoric. I am so tired of the vitriol, inside of religion, outside of religion, between religions, meh.. I'm starting to sound like John Lennon. You said it: right on.I hope this is what religion is evolving into.
I am only antagonistic towards those that use faith to justify hate and reduce world knowledge.
In this sense religion is becoming its own worst enemy. It would be best served (and have the healthiest future) if it focused on incorporating all humans for its own intrinsic sake. Any in-group/out-group nonsense or insincere proselytizing will not due in the 21st century.
Religion has always been its own worst enemy. When did "moderates" stand up and condemn what their extremists are capable of under their religious myths?