a thoughtful web.
Good ideas and conversation. No ads, no tracking.   Login or Take a Tour!
comment by kleinbl00
kleinbl00  ·  3232 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: Why Bernie Sanders Already Won

I think it's ludicrous that anyone who went out and caucused for Bernie Sanders would sit on their hands and not vote against Trump or Cruz. I mean, that's some nose-cutting, face-spiting stupidity right there.

There's also the fact that in order to caucus for Bernie Sanders, you had to register to vote and odds are, if you're under 90 you probably registered to vote absentee or early because why the fuck wouldn't you?

So really, in a lot of states it comes down to "are you going to fill out this form and put a stamp on it or are you going to let Trump win?

I've voted in every general, special, runoff and primary since 1992. It's just too fuckin' easy. Getting people excited about politics mainstreams you. I mean, shit - even after Kerry's bullshit showing in 2004 I still kept voting.





tehstone  ·  3230 days ago  ·  link  ·  

    So really, in a lot of states it comes down to "are you going to fill out this form and put a stamp on it or are you going to let Trump win?

It may be so clear cut in the general election but the primaries are not so in several states.

Washington has been vote-by-mail since before I was old enough to vote but the Democrats still hold caucuses to choose their nominees. If you want your voice to count you have to give up an entire Saturday to do so (if you're lucky enough to not work that day of course) and while there supposedly is an affidavit form to fill out if you can't attend it remains to be seen how many of those will actually be taken into consideration.

For me personally. I won't vote for Hillary if she's nominated. I'll vote third party. And fuck you if you tell me I'm throwing away my vote, you're part of the problem.

kleinbl00  ·  3230 days ago  ·  link  ·  
tehstone  ·  3230 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I'm aware of that. But our two party system is terrible and I'm not going to vote for a candidate from one of those parties if they're both terrible choices. If more people felt the same way AND we changed the way our elections work we might have a more productive government.

kleinbl00  ·  3230 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Driving in a snowstorm is terrible, too, but you don't improve it by bouncing off the guardrails. If the snow let up AND the road wasn't so icy, it might not suck so hard. But that's about as likely to happen as it is that the 2-party system will be changed by voting third party.

lila  ·  3226 days ago  ·  link  ·  

My first response to this article was: wow if that is what Nader did what an ass. Then I remembered that I must also be an ass . I have joked many times among friends that all the democrats should start voting republican if they really want change because if undiluted republican governing ideas were put into action and the results were terrible then people would be more likely to want the opposite pendulum swing and society would move much farther left in a possibly shorter time frame. I said it as a joke, but damn, some people actually adopt that as a political strategy.

kleinbl00  ·  3226 days ago  ·  link  ·  

    But the financial records show that $23,000 in checks of $1,000 or more have come from loyal Republicans. Among those who have given recently to Nader are Houston businessman Nijad Fares, who donated $200,000 to President Bush's 2000 inaugural committee; Richard J. Egan, the former ambassador to Ireland, and his wife, Pamela, who have raised more than $300,000 for Bush; Michigan developer Ghassan Saab, who has given $30,000 to the RNC since 2001; and frozen food magnate Jeno Paulucci, and his wife, Lois, who have donated $150, 000 to GOP causes since 2000 alone.

    All have donated the maximum $2,000 to Nader's campaign since April, records show.

http://www.sfgate.com/politics/article/GOP-donors-funding-Nader-Bush-supporters-give-2708705.php

tehstone  ·  3230 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I have no delusions that my choice to vote third party will change anything. But I'm not going to give in to a false choice between two options that don't represent my views.

lila  ·  3226 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Voting third party in a general election will not likely get a particular candidate elected but I would not go so far to say that it does not change anything. Voting third party seems to be effective at accomplishing one goal: pushing the the Republican and Democratic parties further right and left respectively. Recent examples include Bernie Sanders support pushing Hillary into a further left position on trade agreements in the primary and Anti establishment Trump and Cruz supporters splitting republican support

user-inactivated  ·  3230 days ago  ·  link  ·  

The lesser evil is less evil.

kleinbl00  ·  3230 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Just do me a favor - vote for the guy you want to win the least.

Gregoire won by 129 votes, out of 2.7 million cast.

War  ·  3232 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I think it just goes to show how many Americans are not educated on the political process. Many people I've talked to cannot understand why not voting, or even worse voting against Clinton is a pretty bad thing. The number of times I read or hear "maybe we should get Trump, shake up/destroy the establishment" is actually alarming. I mean it's pretty upsetting how little is understood about how government works. I'm not saying I'm some master, but I have enough knowledge to understand the importance of voting.

kleinbl00  ·  3232 days ago  ·  link  ·  

They've got eight months to figure it out and as you've pointed out, there are some fundamental, easy truths there.

Deltron_0  ·  3232 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Consider the possibility: a large number of voters for Trump are willing to accept a large part of his opinions he shares in which they disagree with - knowing they would not ideally come to pass through the structure of our government i.e. Congress and the Judicial branch.

I called this event happening over three years ago to a family friend - who happens to be a U.S. Senator....sitting around a fire - I warned them of the abhorrent gridlock within our legislature would spawn the opportunity for an individual to come to power solely out of their aggression towards the establishment in D.C..

Though Trump is a bit more developed than just a single message of anger (sometimes), I'm no longer worried the result will end in the complete destruction of our governing tenets, a true fascist coming to power, and the fundamentals of our governmental framework being supplanted for any tangible socio-economic architecture that - at the very least - will bring reform. There is little intelligent representation in favor of Donald Trump on the internet (that or I just haven't cared to look) - But there are a lot of living breathing individuals who do support him.

I'm an optimist - and like to think that - if Trump gets elected, he will force the legislature to get their act together - and not necessarily act to support his decrees.

tehstone  ·  3230 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Maybe.

But remember this?

Trump is petty and vindictive and hates being made fun of. My theory is that he's running as a giant "fuck you" to everyone who laughed at him before.