Disengaging from Hubski for a while. In my first month and a half, I've already managed to clash with a number of locals. Either I'm doing something wrong, or I'm doing something right. Going to figure that out. Besides, depression made its presence known again. I'm on the backswing but still not a pleasant interlocutor. A Hubskier told me, in a private conversation, that the other Russian, the guy people were firmly associating me with, also fought with depression. Frankly, I'm not surprised that he was: it is a glum country. One thing I realized, though, is that you would never know were it for me telling you so. Not only are Americans uninterested in the outside culture — something noted way back in the 30s — Russia has become a boogeyman for the rest of the Western world. "Oh, you're gonna do this? But what if Russia?" I'm not saying you're supposed to care about Russia. I think it would be a good idea to look into the enemy the state names, to see if they're as bad as they are. That's something Henry Rollins said that resonated with me. The people are not the threat. I'm not evil. Lots of people I know are nowhere near evil. The petty scumbags I get to see? Less than one percent — and that's everywhere. Speaking of the outside world: I found the kind of a suit I want to graduate in. No black robes, no square hats: bright, white-orange-gold coat — a symbol of celebration rather than sullen seriousness. Rosa has been cooling due to the mood swing. I've gotten much clarity for the other things, so it's been worth it. I'm working on a little game that it the essence what I wish to see in design: minimal semiotics for a very high symbol-to-meaning ratio. It's stupid-simple and it may not mean much to you, but it means a world to me to be able to craft it. I'll share it as soon as it's ready.
Hubski is a pretty small bar. Stepping on feet from time to time is inevitable. You're also an ESL speaker with a different cultural background than America/Western Europe so there's some additional struggle there. Everyone here is actually pretty quick to forgive and forget. As for people in the west hating Russia? Maybe it's from where I'm standing, but we don't see everyday citizens as villains, no matter what country you're from. You're all trying to get by just as much as we are. Hell, if you come here you'd probably pretty much be greeted with open arms. And with an accent? Shoot, ladies would be tripping over themselves to get a chance to talk to you. American girls love foreign accents.
What role you think it plays? The problem is that you don't see everyday citizens. All I know about Turkey is that they have a dictator for a leader and some outrageous foreign relations. Passively, that's all I'm going to get. It would take being exposed to the country's culture and zeitgeist or to its people to change my outlook to any significant manner. I know there are people in Turkey, and I'm pretty sure most of them are just people living their lives under slightly different conditions. I know the Turkish people aren't their government. I just don't think about those people. I suspect that's the same kind of outlook people get in the US... except Americans have been, for decades, fed the idea of Russia being the villain, and that's a big factor. Hell, I'm not a racist, and even I turn away from the people out of contries-to-the-south (Uzbekistan, Tajikistan etc.) — because the idea of them being "inferior", almost to the level of untouchables, is what I've been exposed to for as long as I live. It's a terrible sentiment to hold onto, even unconsciously, but — no denial it's there, and it's going to be there for a while even if I take actions to acquiant myself with those people (even the pronoun I use — "those", meaning "they far away", rather than "these", "they close to me" — exposes my bias). People in the West — hell, people all around the globe, at this point — hate Russia, without looking further into the entity known as such, because Russia is the enemy. You don't get the opportunity to have an image of the person living in the "enemy state" because that would make you see that the shit the country's doing is not the whole country's fault, but a few rotten people in the upper echelons of government who deem it appropriate to lie, cheat and steal as long as they get to see their profits increase, with few regards to the lives of the people whose backs they're sitting on. The best I can do, then, is to expose you to the outlook of someone from this country. It's your choice whether to engage with the exploration. I could only give you the opportunity. That is what I suspect would happen if I were to come to the US. "Oh, you're Russian? Come in, you freaky redhat, and tell us stories from the Motherland!" I'm joking, of course. I think people would appreciate being able to learn something about the land far away and the people it hosts. People want to see other people. Governments do crazy shit that bends their peoples over for a higher goal they can barely perceive the consequences of. Yo. I'm not exactly a ladies' magnet. But — I'll keep that in mind. I have a fun little tidbit to say about girls speaking in accents, but the reply is already way long Sorry for the long haul. I'm sure you have better things to do than read whatever nonsense I have to share.You're also an ESL speaker with a different cultural background than America/Western Europe
As for people in the west hating Russia? Maybe it's from where I'm standing, but we don't see everyday citizens as villains
Hell, if you come here you'd probably pretty much be greeted with open arms.
Shoot, ladies would be tripping over themselves to get a chance to talk to you.
It just creates communication gaps. There's cultural and historical nuances that are behind words and phrases that sometimes don't come across if you're not mentally embedded in the language. At the same time, your world view and someone else's world view might lead to different interpretations and/or expectations of the exact same conversation. It doesn't mean you shouldn't converse, it's just something to be aware of. As for everything else, I'd say this. Despite what the news, including American news, might make you think, Americans in general are pretty open people. Because we're people, and at our core we're all good, even if we're massive fuck ups sometimes. Maybe for a while, as an experiment, instead of think "American" or "Russian" or "Chinese" or "Brazilian" or whatever, replace those words in your internal vocabulary with "human" and "good" whenever you can and see where that perspective takes you. You might surprise yourself.What role you think it plays?
My family is from an ex-Soviet country, I'm 95% sure my nuclear engineer grandfather was involved in the Cuban Missile Crisis (family lived in Cuba for 5 coincidental years), and now I'm a cog in the DoD machine. Russia is a near-peer military threat, so it has to be a boogeyman. Are you saying the U.S. isn't one of the few boogeymen in Russian culture? Nobody in their right mind would declare any citizen of another country as evil because they are members of that state. Combatants and political actors engage in warfare with other combatants and political actors, not their civilian populations. I encourage you not to associate American political and media agendas with the global outlook of American citizens.
This might be collision of terms we use. I understand "boogeyman" to mean an intentionally vague entity that is used to scare people into submission. This is how I see Russia being perceived, although... ...this exposes my bias. I don't get to see Americans: only what they get to see on screens and in the papers. How relative is public interest and political activity of the Russia/Trump scandal for an Average Standard American?Russia is a near-peer military threat, so it has to be a boogeyman.
I encourage you not to associate American political and media agendas with the global outlook of American citizens.
I understand now that you mean boogeyman to be a kind of tool for the government or media, and for the media, you're right. But that's only the case because the media will grab anything it can to snowball into the forefront of the public interest, and Russian-American relations happen to be full of theatrical events. Right now, the biggest outlets in news media are more similar to a reality show like Keeping Up With the Kardashians than a source of information for current events. News on the Russia/Trump scandal is something I personally make an effort to ignore because it is just so difficult to sift through the media until I can find actual information, so I won't comment on it. But I would say the Average Standard American sees it as a talking point that they know nothing about to debate others who know equally nothing about it, just like most other political events that stem from today's administration. I'm glad we see more eye-to-eye than was apparent at first :)
That's Quote Book material. Stealing it.the Average Standard American sees it as a talking point that they know nothing about to debate others who know equally nothing about it
I appreciate the thought. Guess I'm just wired to not rock the boat. Had to figure out what's more important, and how to get through the guilt once I speak my mind.
I'll miss you. You are uniquely eloquent in a non-native language, which is always a pleasure for a wordsmith like me to encounter and experience. And I think you may be reading too much antagonism into some of the ahem "discussions" we have here on hubski. Yeah, people make points using strong language, but not in a way intended to diminish you... but for emphasis in this text-based medium, motherfucker. :-) Whether you stay or go, your contributions here have been valuable. Thank you for sharing yourself with us, even if it was only for a short time.
It's a high praise, coming from someone like you. I appreciate it. If it's any consolation, I never meant to leave Hubski for good. I just needed some space.
I'm sure that I've had almost every prominent long term member of Hubski that I don't know in RL cursing, frothing mad at me at some point in the last few years. I had pretty much the whole community come down on me one time for calling out another members bullshit. Told I was totally out of line and that I needed to apologize and they couldn't believe what an asshole I was (later on more than a one of them apologized and admitted that I was just the first person to realize what was really going on). I've got scars from some of the battles I've engaged in. I've had to eat big old dishes of crow when I was in the wrong and there are more than a few times I've burned a bridge and stuck to my guns because I thought it was the right thing. Don't sweat a little conflict, it's one of the ways we grow and learn.
There's a Zen Buddhist term, mu, that means a number of things — among them, pointing out that a question, in its current form, cannot be answered. So, mu. I think it is to say that, just as most Americans are generally uninterested in the outside world, most Russians generally drink. "The greatest country in the world"? Come on. Just as well, there are plenty alcoholics here.
What's your hangover remedy? If you're going to cling to that opinion it's going to warp your perception of the people here. You're an outsider as most of us are North Americans. So if you offer opinions on our politics or culture, as most things here are geared towards that or at the least the experiences of us, then you need to preface your opinion that it's coming from an outsider who doesn't have the intuitive understanding of our culture and not get upset if you overextend the importance or relevance of opinions that should be tempered with understanding that you do not have the same cultural background
I think you've just proven my point. I don't need to have "intuitive understand of [your] culture" to provide my opinion. You may have been born in the USA, but I've been studying it a lot. Sure, I'm no expert... Are you? Don't wanna hear my opinion? That's fine. I'd like to hear yours, though. I hope you're not going to stereotype me as just another outsider hoping to hit the first base with your beloved country.you need to preface your opinion that it's coming from an outsider who doesn't have the intuitive understanding of our culture
fuck am I doing Okay, you know what? You win. I'm an outsider. I can't fathom what your country's going through 'cause I don't live there, I don't breathe there, I don't shit there, and the stuff I'm reading about it sure as shit ain't going to enlighten me 'cause you need intuition to grasp it... like I'm going to tell you about the state of Walmart or how to treat your troops returning from abroad or someshit. I've said I'm not an American a hundred times by now. You want me to say it any more? Alright, I'll mention it every time I reply to you about something concerning the US, 'cause I'm pretty sure the rest of Hubski already gets it. Don't even start about the validity of opinions. A modicum of thought is enough to consider that maybe our perspectives might be different.
I want you to not take it personally when you're told you're wrong and not expect to have the kind of knowledge of this country that you seem to think you have. You can have insight but as an outsider and your knowledge is indirectly acquired. We once had a long conversation that was basically me and others trying to explain that you don't understand freedom of speech here and you wouldn't back down from your misunderstanding of that right here. You need to be willing to back down like I do when I hear about Canada or New England instead of getting butthurt. You aren't going to find a more willing community to consider the experience of the world outside their own experience than hubski and your prejudice about the people in America and your perceived disrespect are causing your bad experience. And you know what? You're still upset that you feel someone is disrespecting you instead of giving you advice on how to approach people and get over your own arrogance
I apologize. I've given you a dose of disrespect that you didn't deserve, simply because your opinion was opposing mine. I was in a bad place, and with as clear a view of things as I do now, I wouldn't have hit "contribute" then. I still disagree with you on a lot that you brought up, during this conversation or your last reply, but I'm in no position to argue any of it with clarity right now. I just wanted to say that I made a mistake by being as dismissive and aggressive towards you and your words as I was.
Yes. I am an expert on my culture as much as you are on yours and no amount of studying makes up for immersion in a culture. I don't even offer my opinion on Canada in a way except as an outsider and we aren't even that different. I don't offer opinions on other parts of my own country unless I'm prepared to accept my outsider status. Where I'm from is different than New England and The West so I accept I don't know what it's like in those places
If possible I would highly suggest traveling outside of Russia for a little while
Born and raised in Montreal, Canada but both my parents are from Russia. We spoke Russian at home, watched movies, read books etc. Went to Russian Sunday school until I was 15 so while I'm not great, I have basic reading and writing skills too. But I noped out of trying once we started learning about the Деепричастие and the writing exceptions. No way knowing how to properly spell "falling star" properly will ever come in handy as a Canadian citizen, and all the rules seemed like overkill for me to be aware of.
I’d say it’s pretty good! I lack a little in slang but otherwise I’m good :) I only get flagged as a foreigner in Russia when mentioning brand names like Kleenex or Tylenol. Or if I say something dumb like look for hair conditioner and actually calling it кондиционер in russian.
I had to google it. It actually is called "кондиционер", isn't it? I know I heard people talk about it.
Конечно, я не знаю, сколько знают другие о тебе и твоей стране. Но может быть, что ты не знаешь более о нас :)
Nope, my incomplete recollection of what I studied in college (so > 10 years ago).
I wanted a variety. English is my native language, and by college I was already fluent in Spanish, so it seemed like a good next step. I also studied Mandarin and Ancient Greek while in college, and am currently refreshing my Greek and slowly beginning Coptic.
How do you feel about speaking Russian now? Did you have practice with it afterwards?
I've forgotten 95% of what I learned, probably, although I'm sure it's floating around there someplace. I'd like to get back into it eventually, but I don't really have the time to learn something like that. Dead languages just require reading (so are generally something I pick up faster) and I can work at my own place.
If you get back to it and need practice, just let me know.