Is not having gay themed 'stuff' now homopobic? -XC
Homophobic is a weird word, because it implies some kind of fear-based aversion rather than prejudice. The idea of people being openly gay is very normal for a large part of this country; however, in a number of places, it obviously isn't. For those living in places where being gay is a non-issue, Disney looks out-of-step with reality. IMHO it's Disney's choice to make, but they shouldn't be surprised if they are increasingly criticized for it. I have a couple of gay friends with kids. I can imagine that a normal gay Disney character would be a refreshing thing for the whole family. As StJohn said, not too unlike them finally having a black princess.
They're a money making company, not a "social change" operation. They do things on TV they don't do in movies. And on TV different stuff happens at night than at 4pm. I'm surprised anyone's surprised. I'd just like to see a movie where a dad isn't a dunce. -XC
Well, they might be in it for the money, but what they do has significant social ramifications. Disney is everywhere. The public will make demands. At some point, the bottom line will push them to make a normal gay character. Yeah, they aren't allowed to make mom look like a dunce (unless dad is too), and we guys can't legitimately complain as a group. I'd love to see a world where everyone can be a hero or an idiot, and no one gives a damn. I think a true mark of overcoming prejudice is getting over the hypersensitivities that come with overcoming it. Disney won't start with a ruthless gay villain, but IMO it will be nice when we can get there.They're a money making company, not a "social change" operation.
I'd just like to see a movie where a dad isn't a dunce.
Well, if that's your stance, why doesn't Apple, whose CEO is openly gay (IIRC), have a significant gay advertising presence? I'd argue that Apple is more important than Disney in terms of brand loyalty and identification.... -XC PS - I suspect Disney will still be a brand in 25 years and Apple will be as important as Sony. Different business models. Though Disney will die if Congress gives us back our constitutional copyright protections, but I don't see that happening.
Well, Disney has characters and tells stories, and Apple just has to give us increasingly cool gadgets. I haven't felt that any Apple ads were noticeably either hetero- or homo-sexual. Apple seems kinda 'future androgenous', actually. I actually didn't know Tim Cook was gay. But Apple does have a fairly conservative social stance when it comes to apps. At any rate, both companies just want to make the most people happy and avoid controversy, and I think that largely describes their behavior. Agreed. Disney pretty much owns that portion of our government.
As the gender studies people will tell you: if the sexuality isn't obvious, then it's hetero-normative. Like the race studies people will tell you: if no color is mentioned, then the color is white. So I say to Tim Cook - bring us an openly gay Apple ad. There have been plenty of Apple ads with boys/girls, why not some LGBTU action here? _XC
I see where you're going, but I don't think Disney has to make anything "gay themed". That's a purely artistic choice and personally I find movies about gayness extremely trite and tedious. However it is homophobic to pretend that gay people don't exist. If a company had a policy to keep Jews and black people out of its films, I hope you'd agree that would be racist. It's equally anti-gay for DIsney to pretend that a significant slab of the population has no role to play in their stories. Whether or not Disney has a social responsibility to children is an interesting question. I'm not sure I can answer it, but it is the case that we learn an awful lot about the world from the media we consume, especially when we're young. I don't think anyone can dispute that Disney has a huge impact on kids.
Hmm, well, I'm not sure there are that many gay (lets take that as short for LGBTU, shall we?) people (parents, teachers, kids, etc) in Disney's target market. I've seen numbers of 4% to 10% of the population (I suspect closer to 4% or lower) as self identifying as gay. That number will be enormously under-rated relative to Disney's target market, so they have even less potential loss of market. You could say that the number is higher b/c some pct of their target market will have self identified gay relatives/friends. But then how many of that segment wants to explain that sort of thing to their children at any one time? -XC PS - I still say Apple has a higher responsibility than Disney.
I won't disagree about Apple's responsibilities, but then I hate them so much they've already forsaken any good they might have done. I'm not sure I understand what you meant about the target market, though. Is Disney's target market heterosexual white families who don't know any gay people? It seems unrealistic for Disney to build a secret garden where only straight people can go. I don't believe that's the case — Disney's stories are universal and are enjoyed by most children. Whether the kids are aware of it or not, they already have gay relatives and teachers, and at some point they or some of their friends will turn out to be gay. 5% is a significant number of people, and it's safe to say we all know at least one gay person. Yes, it can be an awkward conversation to have with kids, but so is explaining love between heterosexual couples. Explaining gayness doesn't entail explaining anything new. The difference between explaining heterosexual love and homosexual love seems to be in the minds of the parents.
Disney's market is certainly mostly made up of parents who are not going to the movies with children under 10 and hoping to get a change to explain sexuality. Me, personally, I just wanted to talk about how funny the talking sloth was, not who he was dating. If you think 5% is significant, than it is. Oh, wait, just re-read this. You don't have kids? -XC
I don't have kids. My point about the sexuality, though, was that parents already have to have that conversation with kids about straight couples. Broadening the talk to say that anyone can fall in love with anyone else doesn't make the conversation more difficult. And, as you rightly pointed out, Disney movies should not be gay-themed. They shouldn't have sexual themes at all, but that doesn't mean you can't have gay characters just being there. They already have straight characters falling in love, but they're not movies about heterosexuality.
Dude, parents don't have that conversation before they have to. And, yes, actually, adding edge conditions to any conversation with a child makes it much longer to explain and much more likely that they'll do/say something hideously embarrassing in public. -XC PS - Three kids, I have some experience at this sort of stuff.
You've got experience on me for sure. But does seeing a gay couple on screen really pre-empt that discussion? You're already seeing straight couples on screen. By showing a gay couple kissing you're not showing any level of adulthood that wasn't already there. Also, I suspect kids are going to embarrass their parents no matter how hard you try to stop it!