lil found out that I am younger than she thought.
I am experiencing - not a quarter-life crisis, but a quarter-life "What am I doing with my life? Is it enough? Is it fulfilling? How do I make it fulfilling? Am I fulfilling the tropes that are expected of me by society, family, and friends? Do I want to fulfill those tropes?"
This has resulted in a surprising amount of googling "biological clock." I talk a lot on Hubski about not having kids. I have managed to keep a back door for myself so no one can accuse me of pulling b_b if all of the sudden my belly pops out and there's a squalling child. But I guess part of my googling is because I'm getting tired of saying "My views might change" and I'm wondering if there really is any point in time at which my body is going to completely overpower all my reason and I'm going to want to put fetii in it. (Yes, I know the plural is fetuses.)
I also spend time thinking about my career and my passion (poetry). My career has nothing to do with my passion and I want to succeed in my passion. I also want to start taking advise from people like humanodon and the Mr. Money Mustache blog about money management, so those goals are pretty opposing. If anyone's noticed I seem to be babbling on a lot more about poetry and writing these days it's because in an attempt to satisfy both goals, I'm trying to invest a lot more time in poetry and writing. I am submitting more pieces, taking on a more active role over at Kenning, reading more and trying to write more too. I have developed long-term plans that assure me I could quit my current job around the ages of 30-33 and do whatever the fuck I want, and have my retirement paid for anyway. I came to this realization through a hubski article I can't find so here, read about the beauty of compound interest and 401(k)s. Would that be enough? Would I be brave enough to do that? Then I could follow dreams:
I could try to get an MFA
I could try to teach English somewhere
I could just get a shit job and dick around and not have to worry so much. But am I that un-materialistic, to coin a word? and another post of lil's that is relevant for futher reading
THE PROBLEM: We called it "trading season" - that era from about 25 to about 29 when your dating pool started filling up with divorcees. When half your friends said "fuck it, I'm going to grad school." Shit, my wife bailed on "software architect at a multinational accounting firm" for "midwife" in her late '20s and it was a long-ass slog. Hell, my cousin decided she was no longer a lesbian at 25, then changed her mind at 27, then changed her mind again at 29. Her ex-girlfriend was her best man at her wedding. Not even a unique situation for me - I've been to three weddings with similar complications. It comes from the pernicious American habit of smearing "adulthood" across ten years or more. Used to be you were hale and healthy, you went through some ritual and POP you're an adult. Go have kids, go hunt for the tribe, go plow the land. Now we've got: - Somewhere between 12 and 18 - can get married (depending on state) - Somewhere between 12 and 18 - can get married without parental consent (depending on state) - Somewhere between 15 and 16 - can get a driver's license - Somewhere between 15 and 21 - can get a driver's license without a zero tolerance DUI rider - Somewhere between 17 and 18 - can enlist in the military - 18 - compelled to enlist in the military, can vote, can buy cigarettes - 19 - can drink if you're near Canada - 20 - can drink if you're near Mexico - 21 - can drink - 25 - can rent a car without your parents cosigning My wife and I have a kid. She's a toddler. My wife's cousin is a year older than my wife. She's got a kid with a kid. My wife has a medical practice. My wife's cousin has a 500 acre dairy farm. Who's the adult? THE SOLUTION: Just be mindful. 1) Kids. Some people put a lot of thought into it. Some people don't. By empirical measures everyone loses except the kids; by anecdotal measures everybody wins. My little bundle of joy decided 5am was a great time to get up this morning. That sucked. But she's adorable, and vastly more interactive than a cat. Based on what I've observed, having kids is hella easier if you have a partner to have kids with and that if that relationship isn't rock solid before the kid, the kid ain't exactly gonna cement things. The search term you're looking for is not "biological clock" but "advanced maternal age" because the former is a euphemism and the latter is a epidemiological consideration (and even then, a much more minor one than most people think). Educated white women have kids massively later than any other demographic. That's just the world we live in, young'un. 2) Career. How do you want to spend your afternoons? Not on weekends, not on holidays, but on Tuesdays. What do you want to do with your time? That's your career. Not what you're doing now? Figure out how to get there. I've had a long line of hobbies that have become careers and may well continue to do so. Friend of mine put things pretty starkly last year. He was being pursued to head up a division at a major agency. His wife pointed out that he was fucking miserable the last time he was at an agency and that if they didn't make serious fuck-you money at this job it wouldn't be worth it 'cuz he'd be burnt out in a few years. Talking millions. Which he got. And they're miserable. Sleep deprived, childless, no time for their dogs. He was a lot happier at a smaller firm. Which leads to: 3) Money. THEY'RE LYING TO YOU. I'm serious. The entire financial system is predatory, designed to make your capital available to sharks. As Steinbeck said, "insurance is bought by poor people and sold by rich ones." I recognize this is a radical statement to make, but the wake up - go to job - do someone else's bidding - go home - watch TV - collect paycheck from 2/3rds of waking life to cover expenses for 1/3rd of waking life system is fucking bullshit and the only reason this information isn't more common is if everybody realized it we'd be living in the 1700s again. You wanna be a poet. I think we can both agree without hurting anyone's feelings that slotting your chosen career into your chosen financial plan is going to be challenging. Which means you either need to find another way to make money or you need to find a way to make do with less. Read this book. Although the basic premise is "mooch off your parents until you've earned enough to live off your farm" it's got a very different take on "money" which I found rather refreshing. Read this one, too. Before Elizabeth Warren was darling of the Left she was an economics professor who wrote a book about how the entire economy of the United States has been tilted towards making people work harder for shit they don't need to the point that they now need that shit. ___________________________________ "I do not fear death. I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it.” - Mark Twain One dissipates a crisis by examining it dispassionately, accepting the things one cannot change and changing the things one cannot accept. You're a clever girl. You don't need to figure out what you want now. Have the faith in yourself that you've decided what you have isn't what you want and that it's well worth the exploration. When Robert DeNiro was your age he was a boom operator. William Monahan didn't publish his first novel until he was 40, then went on to write Kingdom of Heaven and The Departed. 25? If you're not rethinking things at 25 you aren't paying attention. Just give it the forethought it deserves and it'll all work out great.
Haven't run across many divorcees personally, though when I turn off ad block I'm told that "Single Moms Need A Chance Too!" I bet the divorcees will start appearing on the radar by the time I hit 30.We called it "trading season" - that era from about 25 to about 29 when your dating pool started filling up with divorcees
Haha, pulling a b_b; I love it. More seriously though, there are two things I can say. Firstly, I wasn't being disingenuous all these years that I maintained that family life was not for me. I really did feel that way. Then a couple of really cliche things happened to to. First, this: That is my niece. She is the most adorable creature on the planet. When my brother told me they were having a kid, I asked him why he wanted to ruin his own life voluntarily. I don't feel the same now. I have that picture on the lock screen of my phone, and it makes me smile like a 100 times per day (and no, I don't care how lame that sounds). Making a connection with her definitely changed the way I feel about children. Next, I met (or, more correctly, reconnected with, as we've known each other since high school) the "right" person. I have a connection with my fiancee that I never thought I would share with a woman. I've cycled through a number of girlfriends over the years. Even though I enjoyed my time with all of them to some extent (some more than others), I couldn't wrap my head around what it would be like to want to spend decades with the same person. Now I can. It's that simple, and it's not something I can explain any better than that. I'm house shopping in the 'burbs today. Seriously. And I don't really even mind. I thought I would live in the ghetto forever, but circumstance has somewhat dictated a new path, and, really, I'm more excited about it than anything. Looking back, I don't feel ashamed or embarrassed for going back on my word to never have a family. I'm glad I felt that way. Had I been inclined toward marriage, there's a possibility I would have jumped the gun and married one of my ex girlfriends (three of whom probably would have married me, had I asked). That would have led to a life of misery, I'm sure. Only when the feeling was strong enough to make me not care what my own stated principles were did I have the courage to say, "Dammit, I do want to marry this girl; she's perfect." (Nobody is perfect, obviously, but she is perfect, for me, and that's good enough.) So I would advise anyone to be skeptical of marriage. At the very least it leads to forcing oneself to be patient. All that said, I still fucking hate weddings beyond words. I don't envision that changing.
How does your finance feel about weddings? I have never formed an opinion, like I'm "supposed to" about what mine would be like if I had it. I think I've stated elsewhere but I've nailed down what I would want, very loosely: a backyard wedding in good weather with great music, all my friends, and lots of alcohol. Maybe I'd wear white. And that's as picky as I can get on the topic. I don't care about the kind of peacocking that goes with a lot of weddings. I wouldn't want a gown or a church or probably any religion. I don't care what the flowers are. We can eat ribs and fried chicken for all I care.
She hates them as much as I do; when we decided to get married, we decided that we would do it in some remote location in order to avoid a big, silly wedding at home with all our friends and family. We thought about going to the Maldives or Koh Samui or some other remote, tropical paradise. We compromised on Maui (some compromise, right?!), because our parents and siblings really wanted to attend, and the other locations were very impractical. But then our parents still insisted that we have a "party" here in MI that is turning out to be just a plain old wedding reception. Fuck. You can't win in life. I spent last Saturday being shown around some fancy hotel by an event coordinator who didn't get any of my jokes (like when he asked what theme or feel we were going for I told him death metal [I was wearing my Nigel Tufnel skeleton t-shirt at the time]). It was torture, and I though my fiancee was going to puke at some point; she didn't, fortunately. It makes it a bit more tolerable knowing that she also isn't having fun with this. It would be way worse if I had to pretend to be enjoying myself.
In a way, marriage is like graduation. At the end of the day, the grad ceremony isn't for you, it never was: It's for your parents, your family. Walking across the stage to receive my masters Diploma will mean next to nothing for me - All of the things that have meant anything to me will have been long past - but it will mean a HELL of a lot to my parents, as I am the first child to receive that high of an accolade in the immediate family. The wedding and the reception, at the end of the day, aren't REALLY for you. you already know you love the fuck out of each other. It's a formality for your families and for society, though some people also enjoy the event (Bridezillas, anyone?)because our parents and siblings really wanted to attend, and the other locations were very impractical. But then our parents still insisted that we have a "party" here in MI that is turning out to be just a plain old wedding reception.
(like when he asked what theme or feel we were going for I told him death metal
-that's a wedding I would be excited to attend.
This is fucking hilarious. I'm so happy for you guys.I spent last Saturday being shown around some fancy hotel by an event coordinator who didn't get any of my jokes (like when he asked what theme or feel we were going for I told him death metal [I was wearing my Nigel Tufnel skeleton t-shirt at the time]). It was torture, and I though my fiancee was going to puke at some point; she didn't, fortunately. It makes it a bit more tolerable knowing that she also isn't having fun with this. It would be way worse if I had to pretend to be enjoying myself.
I don't think I'm clear on what kind of advice I could give that might be useful for you. Not on money management I hope. I left a perfectly lucrative career before figuring out what I wanted to do and am consistently broke as fuck. That said, I can speak knowledgeably about how to get by on very little. Personally, the idea of retiring young doesn't appeal to me. I suppose if I decided to have a family, then I wouldn't want my career getting in the way of that, but as things are now, I'd guess that if I do have a family it would be in my mid 30's to early 40's. I don't know that retiring early is an option for me, especially as I've spent most of my 20's just learning what it is to be alive. Though I think if you can set yourself up such that you don't have to work, that would be really great. The thing about money is that it is so often used to buy comfort. Most people don't realize just how addicted to comfort they are and thus, tend not to really know how little comfort they need. A spartan existence is liberating in some ways, but it has its drawbacks too. I've found that while I can pretty easily live that way, I'd much prefer to be able to buy quality things and have the ability to finance things like my love of travel. I've also found that by living that way early on, I have a tendency to be very thrifty even when I do have money. For example, this shows up in how I use food. I really try to use every part of the fruit, vegetables and meat that I buy and it's led me to learn things like how to bake bread. A lot of the greatest poets of the 20th century had day jobs and I get the impression that it wasn't always just about paying the bills. Often, working means necessarily engaging with people and the world in a structured way that we might not otherwise have the opportunity. I feel that this can be invaluable to writers, especially poets. In my own experience, I found that it was difficult to write when I was teaching and in part I blamed my students for sucking the joy out of language. It wasn't all their fault, but when one spends their days instructing and (mostly) correcting mistakes and dealing with arcane questions about grammar that aren't really important except on some test that some miserable person has come up with to draw a paycheck, well, writing can be kind of a chore. I did learn a lot about actually using the English language though, which was nice. I feel like I'm able to figure out how to communicate complex ideas in much simpler terms now. At the moment, I'm looking at grad programs in conflict resolution or more broadly, organizational/behavioral psychology. Conflict is a fascinating force in human lives and it occurs at every level of interaction. I'm trying to find a way that I can learn deeply about the psychological and neurological aspects of conflict as well as its practical applications to organizations, including applications cross-culturally. I have the feeling that learning about this will take more than one master's or maybe a Ph.D, but I'm not really interested in the academic side, just the practical. Because the field I'm interested in is based on human interaction, I feel that writing will easily have a place in my life and it will be something that I'll be able to do on my own time that will work well with what I aim to get into professionally. And, if I don't like it I can go back to what I used to do, but with skills that would likely net me a higher rate than I used to be able to demand. In any event, my only real goal at the moment (in the broad sense) is to create the kind of life that the "old me" would envy and that means working in a field where I can be engaged on multiple fronts in ways that are sure to surprise me. Learning more about people and the lives they lead seems to me, that it will inevitably lead to more writing.
Whoops, I could have sworn it was you who recommended that blog to me. Maybe flagamuffin ? Who told me to retire at 30? Humano, you were in the discussion for sure though; you pointed out to me that then I'd have so much time for writing! and I expressed the worry that with all that time I'd get, ironically, very little done.
I think it was flag, though I do remember that we did have an exchange in that thread. I'm a bit skeptical of the whole retire at 30 thing, but I haven't really delved into the whole Mr. Money Mustache blog very deeply. From what I have read, it seems geared toward people who have conventional jobs, which I've never really had or had much interest in (though one would be nice to have at the moment). It seems like you already make plenty of time for writing though, given the number of submissions you mentioned to me a while back.
Scary, I see myself in your words. I am as old as your are and have been thinking about these very things. There is a connection between today's technology and spirituality, Silicon Valley is made from Hippies after all. My parents come from that generation, they have fought for counterculture. Still, I grew up disillusioned, with the conviction that the world has its way and that won't change no matter how idealistic you are. When I finished high school I decided to pursue a very scientific degree. Most of my fellow students ridicule anyone who thinks there is more to reality than what reductionist science tells us. But I think the Internet and modern technology will allow us to unite science with spirituality. It's just missing a valve, a path between the two and then both will be so much more than they are now. I want to dedicate my time to working on this path. Since I saw things this way I have felt the purpose I was longing for before.
I'm right there with you - I majored in Physics, haha. I've always been a scientific naturalist but my view is changing. I think we are starting to see the human race as a source of incredible potential. Information technology is a spiritual development because it allows us to represent far more complex ideas and languages. If you define human life primarily by our ideas (which I think is the best definition. I care far more about ideas and information than anything physical) then the link is obvious. Terrence McKenna has (as always) a unique and well-worded way of describing it.Orient yourself towards the psychedelic experience, towards the psychedelic phenomenon, as a source of information. A mirror image of the psychedelic experience in hardware are computer networks. Computer networks, paradoxically enough, are a deeply feminizing influence on society, where, in hardware, the unconscious is actually being created. It's as though we took the Platonic bon mot about how "if God did not exist, Man would invent him", and say "if the unconscious does not exist, humanity will invent it" — in the form of these vast networks able to transfer and transform information. This is in fact what we are caught up in, is a transforming of information. We have not physically changed in the last 40,000 years; the human type was established at the end of the last glaciation. But change, which was previously operable in the biological realm, is now operable in the realm of culture.
Isn't it more of a third-life crisis? None right now, but I'm entirely unsure if I really want to be an Engineer which is unfortunate considering that's what I'm studying and working as right now. It's kind of boring and I think it's more a factor of the places I've worked and the managers I've worked for. At the same time, I find myself wanting to work with people more and more and working on company development and doing those sorts of things. Due to this I'm strongly considering going for an MBA and getting into management if I stick this course. My other option right now is to go to graduate school for higher education. I love student affairs, I'm heavily involved with it at college and there are a lot of challenges to it. Last option, stick it out, take a bunch of bio courses next year and get into something bio/medical related if Chemical Engineering + some biomed engineering courses is enough. I just want to be able to help people in a more direct manner. Part of why I'm so resoundingly "meh" on engineering is the people. There are some interesting people but most engineers that I've met don't share the same interests as me (music, alt./DIY culture) and are all about engineering only. Case in point: I had my resume reviewed by a fellow who has an oil/gas company (A: fuck that industry) since he was offering on the Chem. Eng. subreddit, and he basically told me to remove everything that wasn't directly related to engineering which is complete bullshit. It's also not the first time someone has said that, but I'm not buying...maybe I'm just not buying into engineering as a whole...sigh. Fuck. _refugee_, I just spent all those words expressing that this is what I'm trying to avoid. I'm still working on an album! 8 songs in and I'd like a couple more, followed by revisions, recording, and releasing. It's going to be digital only but slowly getting excited about it. I'd like to be at the release point. Other personal fulfillment, I'm going out with one girl tonight and with another tomorrow night. Does that count? I don't know, it's exciting to be seeing different people for the first time in a long time and I think that counts as personal fulfillment. Other things, I'd like to be at the point where everybody knows about my record label and buys all of our things so we can sell out and use that money for more music and merchandisssssseeeee. Quarter-life crisis? Maybe. I'm just trying to go with it at this point and figure out what I want from myself and my future. The answer to that is everything because I'm occasionally insatiable but at some point you have to narrow it down right? Or is it better to have likely unrealistic aspirations?...your job changes.
I could just get a shit job and dick around and not have to worry so much.
Where are you on the path to personal fulfillment, and where would you like to be?
Once I'm back at college it's going to be two of these bad boys with LSDJ-flashed cartridges plus my guitar going into Pro Tools 10. Since you can separate channels from LSDJ it's going to be anywhere from a 6-9 channel mix depending on the song. Once this is done I'm probably moving on to Ableton for production.
Do it as soon as you can afford to. You won't be sorry! :)Once this is done I'm probably moving on to Ableton for production.
Let me know when you'd like a second pair of ears to parse through your work, I owe you one, amigo.I'm still working on an album! 8 songs in and I'd like a couple more, followed by revisions, recording, and releasing.
Yes. The problem with thinking about what's causing your crisis is, well, it forces you to focus on the crisis which is in part I think what the whole crisis is about. I think most people try to avoid thinkinga bout these things until they have to. As for tailoring the resume that's actually pretty standard practice across areas, I think - once you have enough experience, that is. If you are applying for your first "real job" and the only other jobs you've had before that are part-time and don't directly apply, I'd keep 'em on there just to show that you have worked. But if you have lots of experience in the field where you are applying, then it makes sense to highlight that and kind of shove the rest under the rug, even though it may feel disingenuous or like you're unable to showcase what you might consider your more impressive achievements. A lot of people have a difficult time adjusting to the concept that you can't always be the whole person you are in a workplace. And I say that with kindness having experienced that struggle in small ways, but being okay not being "fully honest" about myself; and seeing friends who struggle with that a lot more. Co-workers do tend to make or break a job. So if you are worried about the people I could understand that as a valid concern. Could you possibly find some really cool, quirky firm to sign on to? I don't really know how engineering works. My current career sounds dry as dust and in practice is, but I have some really great co-workers so I don't mind slavin' through.I just spent all those words expressing that this is what I'm trying to avoid.
Whoa. Moment of clarity. First off, this is my third "real" engineering job despite them all being co-ops it's been a full 40-hour week, working as an engineer doing more or less actual tasks. I don't find much of it that impressive, others might but to me it's much harder to effectively manage people and projects compared to doing engineering tasks. What both of those things come down, which I just figured out is that I hate being confined by outside forces. That nicely ties up the resume, career, and workplace environment issues that I have. I guess I somewhat understand, but don't necessarily accept why work and outside life are partitioned from each other and don't easily become positive extensions of each other. There's not too many start-ups in the Chemical Engineering industry that I'm aware of, because that sort of equipment and initial investment is an absurd amount of money in order to do anything useful. Well, unless I do the bio thing or take up fuel-cell technologies that is. Both of which are strong possibilities.
I had more freedom as a co-op than I ever did as an engineer. It's a good gig. Aside from the pay. Which is still better than most liberal arts grads make for a good long time, so even that's pretty good. As far as "outside forces" you will never escape them. I'm a straight-up freelancer now and I still have political shit to deal with. All you can do is preserve your own autonomy. I've watched engineering schools chase fuel cells since '96. They aren't appreciably closer than they were back then. Wanna have fun as a startup-minded chemE? Biofuel, bitch. There's guys turning algae into fuel. There's guys turning chicken parts into fuel. Hell, there's guys turning chicken feathers into plastic. Save the world, get a big fat grant. Or come up with a biodegradable K-cup. Kickstart that shit.
Yeah, I just had one awful, awful experience that has soured me on the entire thing. This one isn't bad at all, but the management here is a resounding "eh". Oh I'm aware of that. It's one of those things that I know is the case and the way that things work but it's hard to accept, and something that I need to figure out how to accept. As for biofuel, I just saw that a biomaterials course opened up for Fall. Yes please.As far as "outside forces" you will never escape them.
The key to working with management is to understand that they often have different goals than you do. Understand what their motivating factors are, keep your name off of any "bad lists" and like you say, stay anonymous. A lot of people in the corporate world rightly try to establish their personal brand within the organization. This is great, however the best way to do it is to have your immediate boss singing your praises. For the most part, you don't want his bosses boss to know you exist. Early in my career I volunteered for every thing. I've since learned that it's far better for me to remain anonymous, always hit my numbers and keep my mouth shut. Also, I have absolutely no desire to ever end up in management. None. The pay increase doesn't justify the accountability increase in my opinion. I enjoyed being a "lone wolf." But then, I'm one of the bad guys in "sales"
I tried working in a 40 h/w well-paid job for a couple of years. Then, deciding I wanted something less commercial and a bit more social, I tried to switch jobs. That was in 2009.
Then the crisis struck. Long story short: after 2 years of fruitless applying for jobs and spiralling into a depression that almost resulted in killing myself, I decided that the reason I was so unhappy was not just the constant rejection that made me want to my life, but that I tried to live a life that others expected from me (nice job, good pay, car, vacation, house yadda-yadda. The works.)
Then I decided that I didn't see the logic in trying to find a job again in which I had to work for 40 hrs a week for 40 years of my life being too old to have fun and enjoy my life on a pension that's probably gone the moment I go and try to collect it.
So I decided 'why not now?' Why not do what I like to do with my life? Hell, it's my life, not the life of someone else.
I cancelled my appartment, packed my bag and have been backpacking and hitchhiking for 2 years; I'll work if I need some money or if I find work that interests me. And now I'm doing what I like to do: writing books, sculpting, designing tattoos, designing tarot-cards. Apart from that I can sheer sheep, build houses, milk goats, make cheese, work timber, build kilns, do basic masonry, advanced carpentry, design furniture (and sell it), cultivate gardens, track and hunt, tan hides and keep bees (among other things). And I couldn't be happier.
I'm trying to bring rocknroll back to the masses if for no other reason than just to see if I can.