This has been weighing on my mind quite a bit recently.
Through work, art, volunteering, ect...?
What is a valid contribution?
Damn yo, I walked up in here and got straight DE-PRESSED. Let me lighten it up. I've never been much of a good student. In high school I was an artsy-fartsy type masquerading around as a jock. I fucked off with my studies quite a bit. Never was great at math or science. So I won't be providing planet Earth with a cure for some debilitating disease, and I won't come up with some new formula that'll help us understand the world better. And I can't dunk. But check this out--I have this ability to use letters to make words that convey thoughts and emotions. Then I can connect a bunch of those to make sentences. String a couple of those nifty suckers together and I've got a whole paragraph. Start locking them in place and then--I can create beauty! It's fucking awesome. I'm okay at it, and I'm trying to get better. I'm not gonna sit here and fool myself--I've got a hell of a long ways to go as a writer... Like, a long way! But I've had people who have read my work say that it affected them or made them feel something in some way. Truth is, even just one person who says something like that makes me feel like what I do is worthwhile and has an impact on society. If even just a small one. But one of these days, it's going to be a big one! Just gotta keep working hard.
Nice stuff man. No cure for a debilitating disease? You may be on track more than you think. Honest reflection on life and appreciating the power of ideas and the written word. Sounds like a sure cure for ignorance. I expect that it's likely that I've got some upcoming 8th graders that'll benefit greatly from reading your response to this question. Typically, I've seem to have several each year that would identify with your experiences. Thanks.
This is my aim, what I've always said to myself: whatever I do in life, be it as a job or a passion (essentially, writing) I'm not really going to be doing it for money. Sure, money would be nice, but if I were doing it for cash I would be doing a degree in business or math or tech, something with more job placements and higher-paying positions. I do what I do for the chance to effect someone's life - in any way. Even if it's just making someone stop and think for a few seconds as they read an article in a magazine. If it's a book that changes someone's life, that would be fantastic. I've already managed to make close friends, family, cry with my writing. It's an achievement, much more than any paid work I have done and will probably ever do - the validation and confirmation that what I do, at least some people consider it good. At least some people are affected by it.
No. I am a broke, jobless, skill-less leech. The only reason that i allow my inferior existence to continue is that i am terrified of oblivion and madly in love with my music library. Unfortunately i have dashed my futures apart and am left with no prospects or dreams. Bring on the homelessness i say, bring it forth and relish in the beauty of a shriveling life on a dusty street. If you can't see the beauty in that then perhaps you don't understand beauty. Dear God i wish i was dead right now.
If you're willing to share these fears and thoughts in an open setting then perhaps you are willing to acknowledge that with experience comes valuable perspective. I'm 36 years old. That's right, I'm old, literally twice your age. -Damn, that's messed up. You say in your comment that you are a leach on your parents. Dude, you are 18. You are supposed to be a leach on your parents. You are supposed to not know what you want to do or have any skills. Anybody that says otherwise is full of shit. Also, I have another bit of information that the guidance counselors won't tell you.. the kids that have it together at 18, fall apart at 30. It's true. If I were to look at the happiest, most successful people from my graduating high school class, it isn't the people you would have thought it would be. Sometimes it is, but even those people change majors, careers etc. Point is, judging where your life is going based on where you are at 18 is like watching the beginning scenes of the Godfather and saying, "that Michael is going to have a nice quiet life with his girlfriend Kay." -We all know Michaels life takes some different turns. I barely graduated from high school, dropped out of college and had no idea where I was headed. At 26 I was basically a waiter and was recently dumped by a long time girlfriend. Eventually I went back to school, married a gorgeous and brilliant woman, started a band and released two full-length albums and now I have a career that provides handsomely for my family. I really didn't do any of that till after I was 27. It took me a while. It should take a while. Try and enjoy being a broke 18 year old, it's what you should be. It's being a broke 40 year old that will suck. mk's advice below is good. Get that GED and see where life takes you. But don't for a minute think you should have anything figured out. You shouldn't. One last tid-bit. Best conversation I've ever had with my dad: Me: Dad, at what age did you finally feel like an adult Dad: When I find out, I'll tell you. P.S. To obviate your worries, just realize that everyone at 18 is just as confused as you are. Take comfort in that.
It's just... my whole life everyone told me i was this genius super child who was going to do great things, and i guess i caved under the pressure. I can't study, because paying attention to things kills me. That means i can't pass uni. If i can't pass uni, or even high school, how can i possibly get a career going? It's not like a have any practical skills. I mean the only skill i really have is thinking about things most people don't seem to care about, like why trees are slightly less narcissistic than flowers, and other bullshit that isn't going to get me anywhere.
My Media Studies/English teacher from a year or so back is a good friend of mine now. He wrote this, an article about careers and guidance and the like - it's long, but well worth a read. He recently went around to the people from his graduating class in high school and asked what they were doing, what they had done. The variation was fascinating - some kids who were doing fantastically in school found themselves falling apart at university (I'm finding this myself). Some of them did fine, but all of a sudden found themselves not getting the grades they needed for the course they (or their parents) wanted them to take. One dude dropped out of high school early and is now one of the top lawyers for the Crown here. The most memorable story, I think, was a friend of his who never did anything for more than a year - fifteen years in a row. He kept taking new opportunities, crashed on couches, hitchhiked around, and is now, after a whole string of experiences, is back in this city determined to do something just as unlikely as he's ever done (something like start up a production company). He's happy. He has enough money to live off. Sure, he may not contribute to society, but he's content, and to me that seems like enough. I'm the same age as you. I get the feeling we've had similar lives - I was placed in advanced classes every year, got a couple of scholarships upon leaving high school last year, and on the spur of the moment decided to go for a Bachelor of Fine Arts (alongside another Arts degree). I never studied in high school. I haven't studied so far this year in uni. I'm doing okay - but just okay. Barely passed a Classical studies paper last semester - purely by luck and managing to bullshit an essay in the exam. I had a deadline for Fine Arts yesterday, the work for which I mostly did the day before, and I have another tomorrow - the work for which I doubt I'll even finish. I've dealt with multiple bouts of depression over the years, it neer really going away, but rather letting up. I've seen doctors and therapists, none of them really helping. I often have days where I can't drag myself out of bed. If it weren't for deadlines, I wouldn't even write any more - the book I'm currently working on is about five thousand words long after eight months of work. I need a B average to keep my conjoint degree, something that isn't likely. I'm struggling with the work and focussing, but I'm enjoying it, and that's something I've always valued. I'm not at university to get a degree. I'm not here to one day contribute to society. I'm here to learn, because I've always loved doing it. Basically, I don't know what I'm doing either. I'm not really contributing in that much of a meaningful way - I'm on the benefit, have already racked up about $3k in student debt after 2 semesters. I don't work, aside from some volunteer stuff at a radio station and a magazine. The degrees I'm working toward don't hold the promise of much work. So I avoid the question of what I'm going to do in the future, how I'm going to contribute. It may seem self-centred, but I think about myself and whether I'm enjoying what I'm doing, whether I could be doing something better. I'm eighteen. We're eighteen. We can do that. For now, we have that liberty. I intend to make the most of it while I can.
Expectation can be such a weight, especially when it is coming from others and not yourself. There is a lot of good advice in this thread. Maybe _refugee_ is right and adderall could really help. It did wonders for my brother. He was also the kid that couldn't concentrate but had a "lot of potential." He was always meandering about, head in the clouds. Now he still meanders, but with more focus. Also, trees are pretty narcissistic come autumn. Look at me, with my colorful leaves that I'm about to exfoliate to the earth so you humans have to rake them up. -Damn trees! :)
In such a sense, i like to refer to trees as the poets of the plant-life world, in that they are overly-dramatic and turn the smallest of issues into a complete farce of attention seeking. I feel also, that they deserve such a show less so than flowers, because in Autumn a tree wilts only until spring, but a flower will die, and yet flowers, while highly self-absorbed, do retain an air of dignity and grace as they die. A major issue with this entire concept though is that one feels inherently wrong to criticise trees, as they are so very loving and soft most of the year round, providing shade and free hugs and often fruit.
Hey! I think humanodon and I would disagree with this! > the poets of the plant-life world, in that they are overly-dramatic and turn the smallest of issues into a complete farce of attention seeking. You should check out the #poetry tag on hubski. It's not like that at all :) Poetry is not about attention-seeking any more than any other form of writing, or art, is. Sounds like you've met some dramatic attention-seeking people who happened to be poets, or posing as poets, and it left a bad taste in your mouth...but trust me. We're not all like that and the best of us are not like that at all. In a world where poetry is constantly rejected, you can't turn small issues into attention-seeking, because the small issues (like getting rejected, over and over again - I've had 10 poems rejected probably 12 times this year) happen all the time.
_refugee_ i did not mean to offend, i follow #poetry and i LOVE poetry, i was basing their behaviour on the stereotypical poet as seen in the eyes of the macho, school dropout sports fan character. Again, i apologise for the confusion. I in fact write a rather lot of poetry, despite being utterly apocalyptic at it.
I do disagree. I think that due to many people's inexperience and general lack of familiarity with contemporary poetry and poets, they tend to default to tropes they are familiar with, namely minstrels from the Middle Ages and of course, Shakespeare. Being a poet is pretty tough. Like _refugee_ mentioned, rejection is par for the course and then there's the obstacle of reaching an audience that is not comprised solely of other poets and "literati" types (shudder). Getting better at writing poetry takes a lot of time and a lot of hard work as well as a lot more backbone and spirit than people tend to think.
There was a similar discussion the other day about Disney films seemingly valuing native ability over hard work. We have a misconception that you either have it or you don't. I think that talent counts, but that it means nothing without good old fashioned elbow grease. This is true of poetry, sports or anything that is an acquired skill. We watch Tiger Woods hit unreal shots and chalk it up to god given ability, but we don't watch him hitting the same shot 1000x per week in practice. When all we are privy to is the end result, we lose a lot of what makes the end result so special.
I like that phrase, "native ability" better than "talent." "Talent" has a lot of baggage and from what I've seen, you're right in your observation that people tend to view talent either 100% or 0%. I have seen a lot of people, including my own classmates from grade school and some of my students suffering from this kind of mentality. SeventhProphet illustrated it well in this statement: Now, I have personal experience with this as well, but in the end, how does this "everyone" know what a "genius super child" is vs. a kid with a bit of talent and intelligence? Heck, the people saying those things might even be pretty dumb. Today, it's pretty common for people to be use hyperbole for relatively common things, as illustrated in this Louis CK bit. I really think that when people say these things about kids, it creates this expectation of wild success that simply can't be lived up to. To better see what I mean, check out these two articles, one from the New York Times Sunday Magazine about how kids handle pressure, and one from the New Yorker about the perils of praising kids too much.It's just... my whole life everyone told me i was this genius super child who was going to do great things, and i guess i caved under the pressure.
My sister-in-law is Japanese, and she and my brother have a toddler and are due to have another baby in a few weeks. I know that she is very worried about how Americans tend to raise children vis-a-vis praise. We all fawn over her daughter ("you're so cute!", "You're so smart!", etc), while she always tells us that we're going to give her a complex. Apparently, in Japan it's much more common to teach children discipline than to give them a reach around for basically every little thing they do. It's a good thought, but on the other hand, how do you not fawn over this:
Very cute. Every time my wife tells my daughter how beautiful she is or how pretty she is, I always try to counter with one of the following: and kind, smart, funny etc. I don't want her to think the most important attribute is how she looks. But it is hard not to be smitten with their adborableness.
Funny thing, I was raised by a mother who told all my relatives not to compliment me on my appearance because she didn't want me to value looks. This is not the way to go. (I think you mixing it up is a better/the best approach.) Unfortunately when you tell someone not to comment on looks, this usually twists into "don't compliment them on their looks, but you can call them out if you think they are scruffy/overweight/unkempt etc." Hello, complexes... ;) All better now, no worries.
I NEVER want to focus on "weight" but I do want to always focus on health. Being inactive will not be tolerated in our house. Life's too short. Keep in mind that I consider writing, playing music, playing tennis, running, painting etc all "activities" worth pursuing. It's funny how you don't know what your child will end up like. You essentially have till they are about 7 years old to shape their path -Watch this.
I asked my parents if having kids was like, a cool little biological experiment where you get to mix your genes and then watch how they express in your kids. Like if you get to watch your kids and see your mannerisms in them, etc. My parents said, "No, not really." Haha.
. . . yeah, that's kryptonite. I have encountered a lot of literature detailing the kinds of pressure that some Japanese students face and it seems once again that people have gravitated to extremes: in the West, "OH MY GOD YOU'RE A GENIUS" vs. in the East, "OH MY GOD, YOU'LL NEVER BE GOOD ENOUGH." There has to be a range that works at least a little bit better, I hope.
Is it really that bleak? I am also broke and jobless at the moment, but I don't consider myself unskilled. In fact, I was very good at my previous job, but it's not something I'm interested in doing anymore, so I'm looking for other avenues of employment, though to be honest, I might go back to my old occupation and slave it out in an undesirable location for a year or two to get some savings going. In the meantime, I've been using the time to catch up on things I love. For example, I'm writing again and shopping things around for publication. For whatever reason, when I taught writing while abroad, I barely wrote at all. Maybe it was because I was in a non-English speaking context, or it was too much for me to process, or maybe I found it depressing to correct people all the time. In any event, getting back into it has made me think about going back to school, possibly for writing, though I'd have to do some research on what the job market is like for English professors (probably not so fantastic right now). My point is, life is too short not to struggle and fight our way through to things that we hope for. If I'm going to fail, at least I'll fail on my terms.
A beautiful sentiment, but i truly have no skills. I am 18 years old, i have never had a job in my life worth mentioning. I am expected to go to university next year but i have failed to even finish high school. I live with my parents who provide everything i have for me, and always have. My very life causes them great stress and is the sole reason my mother has depression. It really is that bleak.
At 18 you have far more time and options than you think. Knock out the GED or whatever is necessary to get that diploma. That's step one. Don't worry about not having skills at 18. You would have never projected my current life from my 18 yo self. If I could grant you my perspective, I would. It's far to early to start counting.
I am aware that his will sound like total bullshit being used as just an excuse, but i cannot work. I don't know why, but i find it beyond impossible to study or pay attention to anything for more than 30 seconds. Hell, writing this required several breaks.
Get on that adderall son. Edit: OK, that wasn't insightful enough of a comment for me to leave without adding on to it. What I really mean is: go see a doctor, talk to them about your attention difficulties, and see if something can be done to help you so that you can focus. You should also loop your parents in on this conversation and ask if they have noticed your attention problems, if they think you may have ADD or ADHD, and if they think this would be beneficial/etc. Also, seriously, at 18, almost everyone lives with their parents. I know 28-year-olds still living with their parents. That's really not a big deal. Don't start beating yourself up about it until you become one of the 28 year olds.
I agree with this. What you relate sounds like depression to me SeventhProphet. I've had bouts that were crushing, and extended. Seriously, see someone if you can. That said, ultimately, I have found that I have developed better strategies for working through that stuff. Also, I think it's very likely that your neurochemistry changes as you get older, and that might make it easier in time too. IMO action is the ultimate cure. Do things that you will be glad you did the next day. Force yourself to do one thing each day that qualifies as that, even if it's small. It's powerful stuff.
I do have depression, and psychosis. I'm not on meds though, my parents don't know and i'm not seeing anybody. I know that you're all going to tell me that i just need to talk to someone, but i'm worried that if i do that my parents will ship me half way across the world (it's a long story), and that would upset me. _refugee_ i'll look into ADHD, thanks for the advice.
when we finally hit the street we should start a hubski hobo club. maybe BLOB_CASTLE can join too
How about, what isn't a valid contribution to society? What does a contribution need to do in order to be "acceptable"? I mean, I'm not killing anyone, I could argue that by not killing anyone I am contributing to society (a hazy argument but still, it can be made). I think we would have to say a contribution is an added positive factor. We can't just say that by not doing negative things, we are contributing. After all by that metric we could probably argue most convicted/imprisoned criminals are still contributing, and I think we can agree that once you are removed from society in general it is very difficult to still contribute to that society. So, contributing means bringing something to the table. I think at this point this is where the discussion of whether something is "good enough" comes into play and I think we should avoid that. If you are doing something positive that helps society, doesn't matter if it's art or science or curing cancer. All of these things can help people. Hell, garbagemen are contributing ENORMOUSLY to society by cleaning up all our crap... ...or are they? Is it still a contribution if you are being paid for it? Or at that point is it just a job? Is it a contribution if you could make more money doing other things elsewhere but you choose your career because it's what you love (because you feel you make a difference that way)? So my boss is here so I can't keep rambling but just some things to think about.
I see the point you make regarding a contribution to society and whether it's a contribution or a job, once money/pay comes in as a factor. I think most people would say volunteers (e.g. State Emergency Service, running homeless food drives/shelters etc) are most definitely providing a contribution to society, namely because these are people who give up their free time, without remuneration, for the help of others. But if there are other people undertaking the same work (say for the same group) but it's their actual job (thus receiving an income for their efforts), I don't think that should detract from the work they do, because of the 'being paid for it' factor. As an example, if a homeless shelter had 2 paid full-time staff and 2 volunteers, their efforts all make the same contribution. Regarding your other point re: choice of career, I think it should be at least somewhat admired if someone were to steer their career based on what they hope to achieve, and hold income expectation as a lesser factor.
I'm going to school to be a high school teacher. I always worry about whether or not I will contribute to society. I was going to get my degree in business, but I hated the thought of it. It feels important to me that I do something worth while to humanity, and I'm hoping I can do that in my career, but I fear that my talents, aptitudes, and passions will steer me in another direction. Right now I offer the world very little. I leech off of my parents, and work in a grocery store to support my spending habits.
I hope you're not going to be an English teacher! Haha, whether, not weather :p I'm just rubbing you, I've honestly flirted with the idea of becoming a teacher, too. But I want to maybe do that later in life when I settle a little bit and get more entrenched in my life. Right now I'm still floating and figuring shit out. But teaching, man, we can never have enough good teachers. People who really give a shit about their students. Thank youI always worry weather or not I will contribute...
Thank you for the kind words, and for catching the misspelling :p I fixed it!
While you may currently be living off your parents, you "are going to school to be a high school teacher" and believe it when i say, that shaping a generations of sentient beings in every aspect of their life is contributing to society. Sure, it's possible that you'll get it wrong and raise a generation of psychopaths, but you still contributed. The likelihood is, however, that you will do a spiffing job and make a group o children incredibly happy and successful, so do not pass judgement on your worth to society until you retire from this world-changing job.
Thank you for the encouragement, friend. I hope I can be half the mentor that my teacher and coach was to me. I hope things move in an upward direction for you soon. Keep your head up!
Don't thank me for my words, they're worth nothing. I shall do my best to keep my head up, although it's not looking too hopeful at the moment.
I linked this further up, as well, but you might find this interesting.
This was long, but it was fascinating. Thank you so much. I really enjoyed it.
Sounds to me like you contribute just fine. Aiding a non-profit is, IMO, one of the purest ways to give to society while living in a modernized country. Feel proud of what you do, you deserve pride. You also deserve a coffee break from whatever you are doing right now.
Not to poop in the soup, but "non-profit" is a bit of a hazy term. It sounds like bfv works for one that really does help people. "Non-profit" can be used by companies to denote various things, but it also allows companies to get around taxes, if my understanding is correct. Non-Governmental Organizations (NGOs) are kind of like non-profits but they seek to serve communities whose needs are not being met by their local or national governments.
Not to pee in the Wheaties either, but maybe some of us are beating ourselves up too much since the question is about what do we "feel" we contribute. We all contribute in some way don't we? What a great question for a thread. The very act of reflecting on our contribution is a contribution in itself. A basic contribution, but a contribution nonetheless. Context is everything here. I'm a 39 year old public school teacher. I feel I could make a pretty strong case to other people of my contributions. Recently though, a legislator in my great state of Michigan referred to public educators as "pigs at the trough" as we drain public resources. I'm contributing the best I can with what I've got. Like an 18 year old living at home, I'm doing my best. I've gotta be kind to myself and keep working at it. I can't bother running myself down. There's too many folks out there that will do that for me. I like what I contribute, but I know there's always room for improvement.
I agree, it's a great question. In regard to that legislator's statement, that seems like an odd thing to say; wince when is using public resources to educate the public a "drain" on resources? Pig feed is used to feed pigs, after all. And the comparison may be more apt than the legislator intended. Pigs are highly intelligent (though not well-informed) and are driven by their appetites . . . much like certain economies, if one chooses to view them in that way.
I saw on here somewhere a young buck describing themselves, and what I remember was how they said he strove to make every interaction he has with other people to be as interesting and rewarding as possible. I think I do the same thing. Thanks random kid for articulating a swirl of thoughts in my head for me.
I work in Toxicology, meaning I perform random drug immunoassays, these days it's mostly mining/construction and child protection. I've been called a maggot for what I do. I don't agree with stuff like Marijuana being placed in the same class as Meth, but I don't think people working on mine sites should be doing anything that could affect their work, including drinking alcohol. Even if it were all legal I doubt I'd be out of a job.
That's basically it, yes. If a parent becomes abusive or develops a serious drug habit that they need to go on rehab, they need to stay clean for a certain period of time. Prescriptions are exempt of course. They're observed while doing the test, our company follows a very strict set of guidelines for collection for legal reasons (AS4308), there's a massive market out there for ways to cheat drug tests.
Still, I'd say you make a contribution, given that others derive enjoyment from your music.
Certainly better than doing something and a) not enjoying it, and/or b) no one else gaining something out of it. What kind of music so you play if you don't mind me asking?
I produce various styles of music, but Drum & Bass is my forte: https://soundcloud.com/kinetics
Not particularly, but I always find little things that I find important. Right now, I'm going to school for aerospace engineering, and my god do I hope to work for Elon Musk one day. That's my goal, and if I reach that, then I'll feel I'm significantly contributing to something, but until then I have to take the little things. I work IT for a university. At first I didn't do much, but I know significantly more than most people in the system. My team and a small other team take care of most of the technologies, so it feels good that we contribute to furthering education in that way-- providing software and computers and the likes for people to learn. I've always been a massive art buff. Film, literature, music. I have an encyclopedic knowledge of them from years of absorbing it all. The suburbs didn't provide much culture so I went out to find it. My libraries of the three are staggering by the standard person's standards. Nothing truly huge, but certainly non-negligible. One of my favorite things with this is to just converse with people I know. One of the most important people in my life and I talk about these things non-stop, especially literature. Giving suggestions, spreading ideas, changing perspectives. It's an incredible feeling. I watch things, listen to things, talk about things with people and they do the same. It's pretty much something everyone does, but it feels so important that you can add just a bit of the world and its ideas to people you know so much about.
Not a lot. I mean I'm a good person, friendly, and positive throughout my days and interactions with people so hopefully that rubs off. I donate a few grand to charity every year, and maybe do a day or two of habitat for humanity, but other than that no. I work in IT infrastructure, and my company is actually the leading foreclosure solutions provider in the industry, so I'd say that making the foreclosure process more accurate and quicker, thus removing people from their homes faster, really isn't contributing to anything noble in my mind.